Re: [ifwp] Re: Address space as a commons?

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Jim and all,

Jim Dixon wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, mueller wrote:
>
> > Jim, I still don't understand what is behind these vehement responses.
> > Perhaps you can do a
> > better job of explaining what it is you're afraid of. On the merits,
> > you are simply, undeniably
> > wrong when you say that address space is now, or has ever been, a
> > "commons." A "
> > commons" means
> > that anyone can enter and utilize the resource as one likes; it means
> > no rationing, no control.
> > That isn't the case now, it hasn't ever been the case, and it most
> > emphatically should not be
> > the case in the future.
>
> I did not introduce the term "commons".  What I said was that it is
> inappropriate to claim that anyone owns address space, and it is
> especially inappropriate at this time, when we are trying to create
> a new corporation to assume IANA's responsibilities.

  We respectfully disagree Jim.  This is exactly the time and the place to bring up
how and under what terms Address space is allocated.  It is fundamental in some
respects to how the Address Council should be determined and what TYPES
of individuals should be on that Address Council.

>
>
> IANA does not claim to own IP address space.  It claims to coordinate
> its use.

  Yes, the IANA CLAIMS to do several other things as well.  But those CLAIMS
are certainly in dispute, now aren't they?  (See pgMEDIA case for more details)

>
>
> The regional IP address space registries (RIRs) do not claim to own IP
> address space.  They claim to coordinate its use.

  Yes and not a very good job of doing it either, we might add.  This may not be the
case with RIPE, but it certainly has been shown that is considered to be the case
with ARIN and APNIC.

  Though RIR's don't claim to own the IP address space they certainly seem to want to
control it's use  in a very "Good old boy" manner.  (See rfc's 2050 and 1918)

>
>
> When an ISP or other large address space user becomes a Local Internet
> Registry (LIR), they agree that they do not own address space but are
> only managing it in the common interest.  They also agree to pass
> this understanding on to their customers.

  Agree and practice are two entirely different things aren't they Jim?

>
>
> When you get this far down the tree you find that some people are
> confused and don't understand what they are agreeing to; this is just
> the way people are.  They don't read what they are signing.  So some
> ISPs have odd ideas about address space and even more of their customers
> are confused.

  Very true.  ARIN is a good example of this.  They agreed to operate in an
open fashion, but do not practice that agreement.

>
>
> But IANA, the RIRs, and the LIRs all agree that address space is not
> owned by anyone and they also agree that IANA's job is to coordinate
> the use of this address space that no one owns.

  True.  But in controlling where and what and under what conditions IP allocationsare made
without Stakeholder approval to those conditions is in effect defacto
ownership.

>
>
> Entering the process at this point and suddenly claiming that IANA owns
> address space simply confuses matters.

  We again respectfully disagree with you on this point Jim.  (See reasoning above)

>
>
> What we are trying to do is transfer IANA's activities over to the
> private sector with no interruption in functions.  Suddenly beginning
> to argue that we have all been confused about IANA, that it is not the
> coordinator of address space usage but the owner of that address space,
> is simply confusing the issues to no purpose.

  Again, we respectfully disagree with this assessment and determination as to
facilitate the transfer.  In fact according to the the Address Working group
conclusions at Geneva, it seems very necessary to clarify what role the IANA
currently plays with respect ot IP address space as well as the RIR's roles
within this proposed Address Council.

>
>
> The new corporation will not own IP address space.  It will coordinate
> its use.  And like IANA, it will be subject to a fundamental discipline:
> if it doesn't do a good job of coordinating that address space, the
> world's ISPs will find another way to coordinate the use of address
> space.

  Why should it be the place of ISP's to find other ways to coordinate the
use of address space should the Address council or the IANA/RIR's fail
to provide a adequate set of procedures to do so?  If the Address council
is properly determined, from Stakeholder/Membership Vote their should be
no doubt that the function of managing the IP address space will be done
in a fair and open manner that is transparent.

>
>
> --
> Jim Dixon                                                 Managing Director
> VBCnet GB Ltd                http://www.vbc.net        tel +44 117 929 1316
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Member of Council                               Telecommunications Director
> Internet Services Providers Association                       EuroISPA EEIG
> http://www.ispa.org.uk                              http://www.euroispa.org
> tel +44 171 976 0679                                    tel +32 2 503 22 65
>
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> ___END____________________________________________

 Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com