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RE: [gnso-authoritative-thickwhois] summary of comments re authoritativeness
- To: "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Metalitz, Steven" <met@xxxxxxx>
- Subject: RE: [gnso-authoritative-thickwhois] summary of comments re authoritativeness
- From: "Tim Ruiz" <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:59:10 -0700
<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000;
font-size:10pt;"><div>What Volker said. Also, I said on the call today, perhaps
verifying how the agreements between existing thick registries and registrars
address the authoritative question would be helpful in formulating our
conclusion/resposnse.<BR></div>
<div><BR></div>
<div>Tim Ruiz</div>
<div>Director, Policy Planning<BR><a href="http://GoDaddy.com";>GoDaddy.com</a>
LLC</div>
<div>Email: <a href="mailto:tim@xxxxxxxxxxx";>tim@xxxxxxxxxxx</a><BR> </div>
<div>This email message and any attachments hereto are intended for use only by
its intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. If you have
received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender and
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<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-FAMILY:
verdana; COLOR: black; MARGIN-LEFT: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" id=replyBlockquote
webmail="1">
<DIV id=wmQuoteWrapper>-------- Original Message --------<BR>Subject: Re:
[gnso-authoritative-thickwhois] summary of comments
re<BR>authoritativeness<BR>From: Volker Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>><BR>Date:
Mon, February 18, 2013 11:54 am<BR>To: "Metalitz, Steven" <<a
href="mailto:met@xxxxxxx";>met@xxxxxxx</a>><BR>Cc: Authoritative Thick WHOIS
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-authoritative-thickwhois@xxxxxxxxx";>gnso-authoritative-thickwhois@xxxxxxxxx</a>><BR><BR>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>Hi Steve,<BR><BR>I will try to review over the
course of the week.<BR><BR>With regard to the threshold question, I would like
to point out that one data source must be considered authoritative, and that
can only be the main data depository. Even today, thick whois registries are
factually authoritative for the part of the whois that they output, namely the
data the holds the most basic registration data. For illustration purposes, I
have pasted the specific part of the whois of a random domain for which the
thick whois operator is authoritative:<BR><BR><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif"><divRE> Domain Name: <a
href="http://INTERNIC.NET";>INTERNIC.NET</a>
Registrar: <a href="http://GODADDY.COM";>GODADDY.COM</a>, LLC
Whois Server: <a href="http://whois.godaddy.com";>whois.godaddy.com</a>
Referral URL: <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://registrar.godaddy.com/";
target=_blank>http://registrar.godaddy.com</A>
Name Server: <a href="http://NS.ICANN.ORG";>NS.ICANN.ORG</a>
Name Server: <a href="http://NS.RIPE.NET";>NS.RIPE.NET</a>
Name Server: <a href="http://NS1.CRSNIC.NET";>NS1.CRSNIC.NET</a>
Name Server: <a href="http://NS2.NSIREGISTRY.NET";>NS2.NSIREGISTRY.NET</a>
Name Server: <a href="http://SEC1.APNIC.NET";>SEC1.APNIC.NET</a>
Name Server: <a href="http://SEC3.APNIC.NET";>SEC3.APNIC.NET</a>
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientRenewProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Updated Date: 10-jan-2012
Creation Date: 01-jan-1993
Expiration Date: 18-oct-2021
<FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">As registries may and do change
registrars, sometimes forgetting to inform the current registrar (less of a
problem now, but it happened until quite recently),
a registrars' whois data can only be considered authoritative for the data
elements it itself holds and then only in as much as the registry whois details
point to the registrar.</FONT>
<FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Changing to thick whois, the registry will hold the entire data set, and is
able to change the data without informing the registrar (due to closed court
orders or similar events).
Therefore, the only authoritative data source can be the registry as it holds
the ultimate sway over the data. A registrar may update the data at customer
request, but such changes would
only become authoritative once the registry whois reflects the change.
The registration of a domain name only becomes active once the registry
confirms and enacts the registrar creation request. The same applies to any
updates of the data by the registrar.
This is saying nothing about ownership of the data, which is a wholly different
topic and one I think we should not touch at all.
Authoritative should be interpreted as "the data set to be relied upon in case
of doubt". In that context, no other entity but the registry can be considered
the authoritative data source.
</FONT>That said, I think the question of defining a data set as authoritative
is moot, as the implementation <FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">will
create reality around it. We do not
need to define authoritativeness as it will define itself due to the realities
of how whois works in a thick registry.
</FONT>
</PRE></FONT>Volker<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:E5B4A2ED43DFAE4F9E710FA54FEF8F6215F378DB@xxxxxxxxxx.local
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<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Authoritativeness subgroup members,
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE:
11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A review of the
comments received on this topic from stakeholder groups, constituencies and
others may help advance our work. These are collected in the chart prepared by
staff, beginning at item 52 (in the most recent version circulated
today). <o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE:
11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A threshold question
is whether it is necessary for this PDP to define which Whois data is
authoritative in the thick Whois environment. ALAC questions whether this is
necessary, while NPOC seems to think it is. (We still have no data on the
prevalence of data discrepancies between registry and registrar Whois in the
thick Whois setting, other than the transition report from PIR which seems to
indicate it is not a problem.) <o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE:
11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">As to which set of
Whois data should be authoritative, only the NCUC clearly asserts that
registrar data is authoritative. ALAC notes the registrar data is treated
as authoritative in the UDRP setting. (Note, though, that since the vast
majority of UDRP cases involve registrations in thin Whois gTLDs -- .com and
.net – the question of authoritativeness as between registry and registrar may
not arise.) <o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE:
11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">On the other hand, the
registry data is authoritative, according to BC, R’rSG, and PIR in their
submissions. Verisign’s comments indicate that registry data should be
authoritative for technical purposes. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE:
11pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Several commentators
note that registrars remain responsible for collecting the data and for its
accuracy (although I note that “responsible” might overstate registrars’
accuracy obligations under the current RAA). For NCUC this seems to dictate a
finding that registrar Whois is authoritative, while for the registrar and
registry commentators, this fact does not appear inconsistent with the
conclusion that registry Whois is authoritative. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE:
11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">As a platform for
discussion, let me pose two questions, informed by these responses:
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo4"
class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">(1)<SPAN style="FONT:
7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE:
11pt">Does this PDP need to determine authoritativeness? If no policy
establishing authoritativeness (other than in the UDRP context) has been
adopted during all the years that thick Whois systems have been in operation,
does this indicate that resolving authoritativeness is a ”solution in search of
a problem”? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo4"
class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">(2)<SPAN style="FONT:
7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If
the answer to Q. 1 is “yes,” then would the fact that registrars remain
responsible for collecting the data in question from registrants (and for
updating the same) disqualify the registry data (all received from registrars)
from being considered authoritative? Why or why not? Put another way, is
there an inherent contradiction if registrars continue to collect all data but
the registry database were authoritative? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif';
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Looking forward to
your responses (or to other views of the comments we have
received). <o:p></o:p></SPAN></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
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<div class=MsoNormal style="font-size:12pt;"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY:
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FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"></SPAN><o:p></o:p>
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