RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts

["Paul Stahura" <stahura@xxxxxxxx>]

True, but I suspect "can" (theoretically) and "do" (practically) are two
different things.
Since you say you know, please tell us, for your registry, how many
names are registered each day (say for each of the last 30 days) that
have been registered and deleted (during AGP) more than say 3 times,
each time immediately prior to the last.

-----Original Message-----
From: Neuman, Jeff [mailto:Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:30 AM
To: Paul Stahura; Danny Younger; Tim Ruiz; gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts

Paul,

Given the fact that they can switch resellers, registrars, etc., and
change the domain name registrant information every time, I am not sure
that a registry can tell and therefore shut off a registrar or family of
registrars.

We can certainly tell which registrars do the tasting, but cannot
necessarily tell which do the kiting.  But I will pass your question on
to VeriSign.


Jeffrey J. Neuman, Esq. 
Sr. Director, Law, Advanced Services  & Business Development 

NeuStar, Inc. 



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Paul Stahura
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:19 AM
To: Danny Younger; Tim Ruiz; gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts

Danny, in that comment, I believe the commenter was talking about the
practice where NSI would invoice for a name and then not collect the
payment.  This was when you could register a name via an email template
to NSI. The 5-day grace period did not happen until later.  I think the
concern you cite back then prompted the introduction of 3.7.4 of the
RRA:

3.7.4 Registrar shall not activate any Registered Name unless and until
it is satisfied that it has received a reasonable assurance of payment
of its registration fee. For this purpose, a charge to a credit card,
general commercial terms extended to creditworthy customers, or other
mechanism providing a similar level of assurance of payment shall be
sufficient, provided that the obligation to pay becomes final and
non-revocable by the Registered Name Holder upon activation of the
registration

I see what you are saying about 5-day re-registrations (formerly called
"kiting").  I would also like to understand the extent of it.  I'm
pretty sure VeriSign would cut off a registrar (or a "family" of
registrars) for repeatedly registering then deleting then re-registering
domains again and again during the 5-day grace period, but I'd like to
know for sure.

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny Younger [mailto:dannyyounger@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:04 AM
To: Tim Ruiz; gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts

Tim,

Sorry to have to disagree.  When I look back at the
U.S. Statement of Policy (the White Paper), I see the
following language:

Comments:  A number of commenters objected to NSI's
current business practice of allowing registrants to
use domain names before they have actually paid any
registration fees. These commenters pointed out that
this practice has encouraged cybersquatters and
increased the number of conflicts between domain name
holders and trademark holders. They suggested that
domain name applicants should be required to pay
before a desired domain name becomes available for
use. 

Response:  The failure to make a domain name applicant
pay for its use of a domain name has encouraged
cyberpirates and is a practice that should end as soon
as possible.
 

As kiting is the equivalent of an ongoing failure to
pay for the use of a domain name, and as, in my view,
typosquatting has become an epidemic in conjunction
with the manifestation of tasting, I believe that the
topic remains germane for discussion.

Frankly, I would like to see if ICANN staff can
quantify the extent of this kiting practice.  As far
as I understand, they have access to the records and
have the technical staff that could perform an
analysis (even if only on the basis of a statistically
valid sample).

We're here to get the facts... all of them (and that
includes facts on the extent of kiting being condoned
and facilitated by members of the registrar
community).


--- Tim Ruiz <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> All, I would suggest the group just focus on tasting
> in general for
> three reasons. First, it is that practice overall
> that is responsible
> for the volume we're seeing, and most of the issues
> some have with it.
> Second, as Mike notes, kiting is not easily
> quantified and it is also
> just a form of tasting. Third, some view kiting as a
> degrogatory term
> which as Jeff notes could incite unproductive
> discussions and the group
> doesn't need or want to get sidetrackd with that, I
> hope.
> 
> Tim 
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts
> From: "Jeffrey Eckhaus" <jeckhaus@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wed, July 25, 2007 8:34 am
> To: "Mike Rodenbaugh" <mxr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,  "Jay
> Westerdal"
> <jwesterdal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,  "Alan Greenberg"
> <alan.greenberg@xxxxxxxxx>,  <gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx>
> 
> 
> Mike,
>  
> I do not want to start a flame war on email or pick
> on you , so is it
> possible we can ask all participants to keep from
> discussing rumors,
> hearsay, anecdotal evidence and informal discussions
> from this group as
> I believe collecting facts is one of the core
> missions here
>  
>  
> Thanks
>  
>  
> Jeff
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Mike Rodenbaugh
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:18 AM
> To: Jay Westerdal; Alan Greenberg;
> gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts
>  
> The press release does make a distinction between
> tasting and kiting,
> and it is important to keep them differentiated
> because not all tasting
> is kiting.  
>  
> Hopefully we will find stats to show how much of
> tasting is actually
> kiting, but I think those stats are actually
> impossible because the
> kiters use multiple registrar accreditations and
> identities to do their
> work.  I have seen plenty of anecdotal evidence and
> reporting, showing
> cases of kiting have been found by Verisign
> informally and alleged by a
> few brand owners in court.  Anyone with any info is
> encouraged to
> provide.
>  
> Mike Rodenbaugh
>  
> 
> 
> 



       
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