RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts

["Mike Rodenbaugh" <mxr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks Margie.  I know many of us are eager to see the data MarkMonitor
will share on these issues.  

I think for purposes of evidence gathering, we may not need to separate
the two issues.  It may not really be possible to separate them since
kiting is a subset of tasting that is inherently difficult to detect.
It also would be confusing to almost everyone outside the domain
business, and everyone that I have heard inside the domain business
agrees fairly vehemently that kiting is wrong and should be stopped.  

I do agree with you that, from a policy perspective, they should be
addressed separately.  And I think we should also seek out as much info
about them, separately, as is possible - even if that is anecdotal
evidence since that may be all we can show.  But I do not think we
should try to differentiate in the RFI, rather I think we should address
them as separate issues for any potential PDP Terms of Reference that
this group decides to propose to the GNSO.  

Glad to hear others' comments on this.  Thanks,

Mike Rodenbaugh


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Margie Milam
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:11 AM
To: gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts

Sorry I missed the conference call.    I agree with Tim and believe that
we should have a working definition of "kiting" so we are uniform in our
discussions.   

As indicated by others on the list, MarkMonitor has conducted analysis
on domain tasting and kiting with respect to certain largest brands.
The results of our survey and analysis is announced through our
quarterly BrandJacking Index.  We have numerous examples of the same
domain name being registered/reregistered by related registrars over
short period.  This pattern occurs again and again and causes
significant difficulties to a brand holder trying to get it back.  We
believe that kiting is much more abusive to a brand holder than tasting
and should be analyzed separately from a policy perspective.

Margie




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Seth Jacoby
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:43 AM
To: Tim Ruiz; gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts

I disagree.  I think we should explore kiting as a subtopic in this
group. Kiting and tasting are vastly different, in regards to both
intent and outcome.  I don't think we should just write-off kiting as
just a "form" of tasting any more then we can call a transfer of
registrar a "form" of a renewal (e.g. both actions trigger a billable
event at the registry and result in a term extension, right?).  We
should explore to what extent kiting occurs as we explore this topic in
general.  It's a big piece of the puzzle.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Tim Ruiz
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:45 AM
To: gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts

All, I would suggest the group just focus on tasting in general for
three reasons. First, it is that practice overall that is responsible
for the volume we're seeing, and most of the issues some have with it.
Second, as Mike notes, kiting is not easily quantified and it is also
just a form of tasting. Third, some view kiting as a degrogatory term
which as Jeff notes could incite unproductive discussions and the group
doesn't need or want to get sidetrackd with that, I hope.

Tim 


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts
From: "Jeffrey Eckhaus" <jeckhaus@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, July 25, 2007 8:34 am
To: "Mike Rodenbaugh" <mxr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,  "Jay Westerdal"
<jwesterdal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,  "Alan Greenberg"
<alan.greenberg@xxxxxxxxx>,  <gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx>


Mike,
 
I do not want to start a flame war on email or pick on you , so is it
possible we can ask all participants to keep from discussing rumors,
hearsay, anecdotal evidence and informal discussions from this group as
I believe collecting facts is one of the core missions here
 
 
Thanks
 
 
Jeff
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mike Rodenbaugh
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:18 AM
To: Jay Westerdal; Alan Greenberg; gnso-dt-wg@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-dt-wg] Collecting Facts
 
The press release does make a distinction between tasting and kiting,
and it is important to keep them differentiated because not all tasting
is kiting.  
 
Hopefully we will find stats to show how much of tasting is actually
kiting, but I think those stats are actually impossible because the
kiters use multiple registrar accreditations and identities to do their
work.  I have seen plenty of anecdotal evidence and reporting, showing
cases of kiting have been found by Verisign informally and alleged by a
few brand owners in court.  Anyone with any info is encouraged to
provide.
 
Mike Rodenbaugh