Re: [gnso-ff-pdp-may08] Definition V4.2: concern about "consumer-grade"

["Mike O'Connor" <mike@xxxxxxxxxx>]

ahem.

a fella finishes up a phone call, breaks for lunch, is just drifting 
off for the Afternoon Nap when a fistfight breaks out on the list.
Eric, a gentle reminder -- let's keep the discussion civil 
here.  this last post was a little outside the limit.
how's a geezer to get his rest, otherwise?  :-)

m

At 11:49 AM 8/1/2008, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote:

> is this for my benefit joe, or are you just spouting off?
>
> if it is for my benefit, then you have to be addressing the 
> assertion, mine, that autonomous system is less determinitive of 
> risk than whether the network attached device is a microsoft 
> operating system product, and therefore a poor substitute, if the 
> root cause is not to be ignored.
> reputation has been discussed more than once on nanog, which i know 
> even if you don't.
> hold the "regards", i prefer real ones over what's available.
>
>
> Joe St Sauver wrote:
> > Eric mentioned:
> >
> > #Further, using AS as determinative is vastly less accurate to the 
> > root #problem than using if-MS-then-NO as a gating mechanism, 
> > regardless of #how much corporate chrome there is on the AS and its 
> > commercial #operations. Since I don't think people want to go down 
> > the #if-MS-then-obvious-conclusion path, the AS-is-guilty false 
> > equivalent #should be dismissed.
> > In general, ASNs do accumulate reputation, just as domains accumulate
> > reputation, and just as netblocks accumulate reputation. One particularly
> > notorious example of this from recent years would probably be the "RBN"
> > case, although there are others.
> > The real value of ASN-based reputation accumulation, however, is that:
> >
> > -- there are relatively few ASNs (at least until 4 byte ASNs get
> >    widely deployed)
> >
> > -- it is possible to mechanically and scalably map IP's to ASNs
> >
> > -- if you route a network block, you also have the option of not routing
> >    all or part of that block (e.g., there is a connection between 
> > an    ASN associated with an activity, and the ability to control that
> >    activity)
> >
> > Most ASNs live somewhere on the vast continuum rightward of clean-as-
> > the-driven-snow and leftward of dirty-as-a-deep-rock-coal-miner-at-
> > end-of-shift, although there are some AS's that truly do anchor the
> > extremities of that scale. (Arguably, a trivial example of a "100% 
> > guilty ASN" is one that has been hijacked, for example.)
> > Regards,
> >
> > Joe
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