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RE: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
- Subject: RE: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
- From: "Mary Wong" <Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:01:19 -0500
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<font size="3" face="Lucida Grande">Jen put it much more elegantly than I
did, but in essence that's what I was trying to say.</font> </p>
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<font size="3" face="Lucida Grande">That said, I agree that a
hard-and-fast rule for all circumstances may be unsuitable, so I'm
sympathetic to a "changed circumstance" argument - that,
however, is not what we've been tasked to discuss in this instance. In
this instance, nothing changed. The reason the motion was re-submitted and
re-voted on was because a Councilor did not understand the Council's own
rules. Regardless of whether in the future it is an IPC, NCSG or any other
SG/C's representative, I see absolutely no basis for a re-vote in this
type of situation.</font> </p>
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<font size="3" face="Lucida Grande">The rules are clearly stated,
publicly available and (as I recall) linked to in every Council meeting
agenda document. Even if the person in question is a brand-new novice Councilor
- which is not the case here - I'd be of the same view. Anyone elected to
represent a constituent group has to be assumed to know the rules and
procedures under which they are to discharge their office (just as
ignorance of the law is no excuse.)</font> </p>
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<font size="3" face="Lucida Grande">I agree also that some
orientation/training for new Councilors may be desirable, but that again is
beyond our remit.</font> </p>
<br>
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<font size="3" face="Lucida Grande">As for the question of consensus,
well, at Council level a vote IS representative of consensus (or lack
thereof). Each SG/C has internal rules as to how their Councilors express
their SG/C's views through formal voting - hence the care taken in the GNSO
rules to make sure there has been adequate instruction of, e.g., a
proxy replacement for a Councilor. Again, the fact that an SG/C failed in a
particular instance to instruct their representative isn't sufficient basis
in my view to justify a re-submission and re-vote.</font> </p>
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<font size="3" face="Lucida Grande">Cheers</font> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
<font size="3" face="Lucida Grande">Mary</font><br><br><font face="Lucida
Grande" STYLE="font-size: 12pt"><br>Mary W S Wong <BR>Professor of
Law <BR>Director, Franklin Pierce Center for IP <BR>Chair, Graduate IP
Programs <BR>UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW <BR>Two White
Street <BR>Concord, NH 03301 <BR>USA <BR>Email:
mary.wong@xxxxxxxxxxx <BR>Phone: 1-603-513-5143 <BR>Webpage: <a
href="http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php ";>http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php </a><BR>Selected
writings available on the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at: <a
href="http://ssrn.com/author=437584";>http://ssrn.com/author=437584</a>
<BR><br><br></font>>>> </p>
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<b>From: </b> </p>
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"Aikman-Scalese, Anne"
<AAikman@xxxxxxxxx> </p>
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<b>To:</b> </p>
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"'Alain Berranger'"
<alain.berranger@xxxxxxxxx>, Jen Wolfe <jwolfe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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<b>CC:</b> </p>
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"Neuman, Jeff"
<Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx"
<Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "avri@xxxxxxx"
<avri@xxxxxxx>, "gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx"
<gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx> </p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
<b>Date: </b> </p>
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1/15/2013 2:41 PM </p>
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<b>Subject: </b> </p>
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RE: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
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<span class="031522619-15012013"><font face="Arial" size="2"
color="#0000ff">Hi all,</font></span> </p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
<span class="031522619-15012013"><font face="Arial" size="2"
color="#0000ff">I find myself a bit more concerned about the possible effect of
such a rule on quashing motions for reconsideration.  There may even
be changed circumstances that might justify reconsideration and one would not
want to make a rule that no motion that has previously been voted upon can be
brought before the Council again.  </font></span> </p>
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  </p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
<span class="031522619-15012013"><font face="Arial" size="2"
color="#0000ff">I also tend to wonder whether a Councilor, especially a
newer Councilor, laboring under a misimpression about the conflict of
interest rules, might not, in itself, constitute a changed
circumstance.  Maybe I am less critical because the Councilor in
question is an IPC Councilor and also a very good lawyer.  If he was
confused about this, I consider it possible that anyone might
be.  So I tend to disagree that if the Councilor in question had been
NCSG, that there would have been a uproar about the change in vote (or
at least there shouldn't be in an ideal ICANN world).</font></span>
</p>
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<span class="031522619-15012013"><font face="Arial" size="2"
color="#0000ff">There is an aspect of this which for me involves "Do unto
others as you would have others do unto you."  So it seems that
if we say this is okay the way it happened, the same leniency is given
going forward to any Councilor who labors under a misunderstanding of Council
rules, subject perhaps to the discretion of the Chair in bringing the
motion again.</font></span> </p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
<span class="031522619-15012013"><font face="Arial" size="2"
color="#0000ff">The harder line would be:  "Dear Councilor: You
are responsible for knowing all the rules before you vote and no
misunderstanding on your part as to any issue can serve as a basis
for resubmission of a motion."  If we go this route, new
Councilors should definitely be trained accordingly.  Do new GNSO
Councilors receive training and orientation as is the norm for most
Boards?</font></span> </p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
<span class="031522619-15012013"><font face="Arial" size="2"
color="#0000ff">Anne</font></span> </p>
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<img shapes="_x0000_s1026" align="left" hspace="12" width="75"
v="#DEFAULT" height="78" src="cid:BXOSHYMPELBQ.IMAGE_8.gif">
<font face="Century Gothic" size="7.5pt" color="black"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black; font-family: Century Gothic"><b>Anne E.
Aikman-Scalese<br style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-weight: bold; font-family:
Century Gothic; color: black">Of Counsel<br style="font-size: 7.5pt;
font-weight: bold; font-family: Century Gothic; color: black">Lewis and Roca
LLP • Suite 700<br style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-weight: bold;
font-family: Century Gothic; color: black">One South Church
Avenue • Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611<br style="font-size:
7.5pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Century Gothic; color: black">Tel
(520) 629-4428 • Fax (520) 879-4725<br
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Century Gothic; color:
black"><a href="mailto:AAikman@xxxxxxxxx"; title="Email User"
target="_new">AAikman@xxxxxxxxx</a> •  <a
href="http://www.lewisandroca.com/Aikman"; title="Lewis and Roca Webpage"
target="_new">www.LewisandRoca.com/Aikman</a></b></span></font>
</p>
<br> <br>
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  </p>
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<hr tabindex="-1">
<font size="2"
face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Alain Berranger<br style="font-size: 2; font-family:
Tahoma"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:26 AM<br
style="font-size: 2; font-family: Tahoma"><b>To:</b> Jen Wolfe<br
style="font-size: 2; font-family: Tahoma"><b>Cc:</b> Neuman, Jeff;
Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx; avri@xxxxxxx; gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx<br
style="font-size: 2; font-family: Tahoma"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task<br style="font-size: 2; font-family:
Tahoma"></font><br> </p>
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<br>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
Thanks Jennifer, </p>
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<br>
</p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
Common sense speaks again! The black belt argument will
often close a discussion, though!!!! ;-) Many
involved with ICANN would likely benefit from six sigma training... including
myself! </p>
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<br>
</p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
Let's see what the Standing Committee on GNSO Improvements
Implementation I discussions will lead too. </p>
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<br>
</p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
Cheers, Alain </p>
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<br>
</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Jen Wolfe <span
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jwolfe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">jwolfe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0;
margin-top: 0px; border-left: #ccc 1px solid; margin-left: 0; margin-right:
0px" class="gmail_quote">
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<div>
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class="MsoNormal">
<a name="13c2a0b6f12b65d3__MailEndCompose"><font
face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="11pt" color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif">Hi
everyone,</span></font></a> </p>
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class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
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class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="11pt"
color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif">I hope your new year is  off to a great
start.  I know I am new to the council and this committee so forgive
me if I am misunderstanding our role, but what confused me about this
particular issue was that all of the councilors had the opportunity for
discussion, to ask questions and for consensus.  A vote was taken
and then a councilor asked further clarifying questions and then wanted to
change his vote.  From a strictly process standpoint, I am not
clear on why a new vote should be allowed once the time for discussion and
clarifying questions close.  In any other parliamentary procedure,
legislative body or corporate governance on boards, once a vote is
taken, that’s it, even if someone misunderstood something
procedurally or substantively. </span></font> </p>
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class="MsoNormal">
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class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="11pt"
color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif">I fully understand the need for consensus, but once
discussion closes and a vote is taken, from a process and procedural
standpoint, it’s a slippery slope to start allowing votes to be
re-opened because one person asked a clarifying question after the vote was
taken.  It not only takes up valuable time of the council in
discussing new issues, but could be used inappropriately in the future if
this were permissible.  </span></font> </p>
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class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
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class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="11pt"
color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif">I look forward to participating in this
committee.  I have a black belt in six sigma process improvement and
pride myself on finding ways to function more efficiently and hope I can
provide meaningful contributions to this committee.  </span></font>
</p>
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class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
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class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="11pt"
color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif">Have a great weekend!</span></font>
</p>
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class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; line-height:
13.5pt" class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="9pt"
color="#0e325f"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #0e325f; font-family:
Verdana,sans-serif; text-transform: uppercase"><b>jennifer c. WOLFE,
esq., apr, SSBB</b></span></font> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; line-height:
13.5pt" class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="8pt"
color="#0e325f"><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: #0e325f; font-family:
Verdana,sans-serif; text-transform: uppercase">managing director, wolfe
domain, a digital brand strategy adivsory firm</span></font>
</p>
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13.5pt" class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Verdana,sans-serif" size="8pt"
color="#0e325f"><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: #0e325f; font-family:
Verdana,sans-serif; text-transform: uppercase">managing partner, wolfe,
sadler, breen, morasch & colby, an intellectual property law
firm</span></font> </p>
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13.5pt" class="MsoNormal">
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color="#4bacc6"><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: #4bacc6; font-family:
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ip strategists 2011 & 2012</b></i></span></font> </p>
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<font size="10pt" face="Tahoma,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt"><b>From:</b></span><a
href="mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx"; target="_blank"><span
style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:
10pt">owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</span></a><span style="font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt"> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Neuman, Jeff<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:05
PM<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>To:</b> Alain Berranger; <a
href="mailto:Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx</a><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:avri@xxxxxxx";
target="_blank">avri@xxxxxxx</a>; <a
href="mailto:gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a></span></font>
</p>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0">
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE:
[gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task </p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="11pt"
color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif">All,</span></font> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="11pt"
color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif">I am still missing the rationale as to why the NCSG
representatives believe this rule should be in place for a bottom-up consensus
driven organization.  </span></font> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="11pt"
color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif">Please help me understand.</span></font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0;
margin-left: 0in; margin-right: 0in" class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Arial,sans-serif" size="9pt"
color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #1f497d; font-family:
Arial,sans-serif"><b>Jeffrey J. Neuman</b></span></font><b><font
face="Arial,sans-serif" size="9pt" color="#3366ff"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
color: #3366ff; font-family: Arial,sans-serif"><br style="font-size: 9pt;
font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color:
#3366ff"></span></font><font face="Arial,sans-serif" size="9pt"
color="#068658"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #068658; font-family:
Arial,sans-serif">Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Business
Affairs</span></font></b> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
<div style="border-right: medium none; padding-left:
0in; border-bottom: medium none; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-top: 3pt;
border-left: medium none; border-top: #b5c4df 1pt solid; padding-right: 0in">
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font size="10pt" face="Tahoma,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:
10pt"><b>From:</b></span><span style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt"> Alain Berranger [<a
href="mailto:alain.berranger@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">mailto:alain.berranger@xxxxxxxxx</a>]<br style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January
10, 2013 3:01 PM<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx</a><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:avri@xxxxxxx";
target="_blank">avri@xxxxxxx</a>; <a
href="mailto:gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a>; <a
href="mailto:jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx</a>; Neuman, Jeff<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New
task</span></font> </p>
</div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
I agree fully with Mary's arguments.
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
Best, Alain </p>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:16 PM,
<<a href="mailto:Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:
</p>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font size="10pt"
face="Tahoma,sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt">Thanks, Jonathan and Jeff. As I won't be on the SCI
call this week, my view, FWIW, is that a motion that is properly
introduced, seconded and voted on should NOT be re-introduced (whether
in its original form or tweaked) in the absence of clear evidence
indicating fraud, duress or other similar circumstance surrounding the
original introduction/seconding/vote in relation to the motion. In this
regard, Councilors' ignorance of the rules (e.g. effect of an
abstention), and lack of instruction/direction from a Councilor's
particular constituency/SG, should NOT count as the type of circumstance
that ought to permit a reintroduction or re-vote on what in substance is the
same motion.</span></font> </p>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font size="10pt"
face="Tahoma,sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt"><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">
<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">
Cheers<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Mary</span></font>
</p>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font size="10pt"
face="Tahoma,sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt">Mary W S Wong<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Professor of Law<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Director, Franklin Pierce Center for IP<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Chair, Graduate IP
Programs<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">UNIVERSITY
OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Two White Street<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Concord, NH 03301<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">USA<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Email: <a href="mailto:mary.wong@xxxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">mary.wong@xxxxxxxxxxx</a><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Phone: <a href="tel:1-603-513-5143"
target="_blank">1-603-513-5143</a><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Webpage: <a href="http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php";
target="_blank">http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php</a><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Selected writings
available on the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at: <a
href="http://ssrn.com/author=437584";
target="_blank">http://ssrn.com/author=437584</a> </span></font>
</p>
</div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
  </p>
</div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font size="10pt"
face="Tahoma,sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt">>>> "Jonathan Robinson" 01/10/13 1:12 AM
>>></span></font> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif"
size="11pt" color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d;
font-family: Calibri,sans-serif">All,</span></font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
 
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif"
size="11pt" color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d;
font-family: Calibri,sans-serif">My understanding of the role of the SCI is to
determine how improvements may be made for the future.</span></font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
 
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif"
size="11pt" color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d;
font-family: Calibri,sans-serif">When the motion was re-submitted to the
December meeting, I do not believe that there was any procedure to guide
the Council on the re-introduction of a motion that had recently been voted
on.</span></font> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
 
</p>
</div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0"
class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="11pt"
color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif">This specific issue has highlighted that we may need
something to guide us on this in future.  I do not believe that the
SCI?s hands are tied at all.</span></font>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
 
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif"
size="11pt" color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d;
font-family: Calibri,sans-serif">We have one useful example which raised
concerns and now need to look at  as general solution as possible for
the future in order to cover both the example that raised the concern and other
cases which may occur in future.</span></font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
 
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif"
size="11pt" color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d;
font-family: Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks,</span></font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
 
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
 
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
<font face="Calibri,sans-serif"
size="11pt" color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d;
font-family: Calibri,sans-serif">Jonathan</span></font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
 
</p>
<div>
<div style="border-right: medium none;
padding-left: 0in; border-bottom: medium none; padding-bottom: 0in;
padding-top: 3pt; border-left: medium none; border-top: #b5c4df 1pt solid;
padding-right: 0in">
<p style="margin-bottom: 0;
margin-top: 0" class="MsoNormal">
<font size="10pt"
face="Tahoma,sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt"><b>From:</b></span><a
href="mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx"; target="_blank"><span
style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size:
10pt">owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</span></a><span style="font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt"> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b><a href="mailto:Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx</a><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Sent:</b> 09 January 2013 16:58<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:avri@xxxxxxx"; target="_blank">avri@xxxxxxx</a>; <a
href="mailto:gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx</a>; <a
href="mailto:Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx</a><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task</span></font>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
 
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
<font size="10pt"
face="Tahoma,sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt">I support Avri's points generally, and would add the
following in this specific instance:<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif"><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">- the initial vote was properly proposed, seconded and
voted on.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">- just as ignorance of
the law is no excuse, the fact that Councilors were not aware of the
implications of an abstention (when, frankly, they should be as
it's in the rules plain as day) should not permit a re-introduction of
something that was properly introduced and voted on.<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">- In this case I don't know if the specific constituency
impacted had given instructions to its Councilors as to how to vote. Even if
they did not, the fact remains that these are very clearly set out in the
GNSO rules, and if a constituency or Councilors did not know or did not
make the time to discuss/decide, that is a very poor excuse for
reintroducing a motion (again, one properly introduced, seconded
and voted on).<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif"><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">- In an ideal world, the Council should have suspended
the matter and referred the issue of a re-introduction/reconsideration of such
a motion (without necessarily specifying the actual motion or context)
to the SCI before re-opening the vote. As it is, it seems as though the
SCI's hands are somewhat tied since the second motion did get voted on and
went through - the mind boggles at an SCI determination that this
re-introduction and vote was improper or invalid, especially in the
currrent somewhat sensitive context within which ICANN is operating.<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><br style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Cheers<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Mary</span></font>
</p>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
<font size="10pt"
face="Tahoma,sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt">Mary W S Wong<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Professor of Law<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Director, Franklin Pierce Center for IP<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Chair, Graduate IP
Programs<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">UNIVERSITY
OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Two White Street<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Concord, NH 03301<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">USA<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Email: <a href="mailto:mary.wong@xxxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">mary.wong@xxxxxxxxxxx</a><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Phone: <a href="tel:1-603-513-5143"
target="_blank">1-603-513-5143</a><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Webpage: <a href="http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php";
target="_blank">http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php</a><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Selected writings
available on the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at: <a
href="http://ssrn.com/author=437584";
target="_blank">http://ssrn.com/author=437584</a> </span></font>
</p>
</div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top:
0" class="MsoNormal">
<font size="10pt"
face="Tahoma,sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt"><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">
>>> Avri Doria <<a
href="mailto:avri@xxxxxxx"; target="_blank">avri@xxxxxxx</a>> 01/09/13 2:01
PM >>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Another thought
experiment.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">There was a recent
g-council vote where, in a rare event, the NCSG Policy Council had
decided on an unanimous vote on an issue. But during the vote, some voters
got confused and voted against.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif"><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">Would it have been appropriate for us to demand a
re-vote?<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">Had one of us been
g-council Chair, would it have ben right for us to just reschedule the vote
without even getting the g-councl to discuss and perhaps even vote on the
notion of reconsidering the vote?<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif"><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">A general question, anytime from now on, when a SG
or Constituency beleive that its voters went against the will of the SG/C
should they be able to have a vote rescheduled at the next meeting?<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><br style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">avri<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif"><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">On 9 Jan 2013, at 00:54, Avri Doria wrote:<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif"><br style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">> Even Robert's Rules of Order has rules
on when and how a motion can be reconsidered or rescinded (10.5). The
Board of ICANN has rules on reconsideration in the ByLaws.<br style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">> One specific requirement for
reconsideration under Roberts is that one of those on the prevailing side ask
for the reconsideration. In this case it was the Chair who had been on the
losing side.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">> We need rules on
when it is done and on how it should be done.<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">> avri<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">> On 9 Jan 2013, at 00:30, J. Scott Evans
wrote:<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> I tend to
agree,<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>> From: Aikman-Scalese, Anne <<a
href="mailto:AAikman@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">AAikman@xxxxxxxxx</a>>;<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> To: 'Avri Doria' <<a
href="mailto:avri@xxxxxxx"; target="_blank">avri@xxxxxxx</a>>; Jeff
Neuman <<a href="mailto:Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx</a>>; <a
href="mailto:gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a> <<a
href="mailto:gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a>>;<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> Cc: Jonathan
Robinson <<a href="mailto:jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx</a>>;<br style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> Subject: RE:
[gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> Sent: Wed, Jan 9, 2013 5:27:47
AM<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> Hi all,<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> What I am
struggling with procedurally is a basic "Robert's Rules" type
inquiry. Namely: - I don't know of anything procedurally that would permit
a motion that is moved and seconded from being voted on, no matter how
obnoxious anyone finds the motion to be. I guess this is what we are going to
discuss tomorrow.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">> the issue was voting again after it had already been
defeated.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> I would like
to ask whether there are specific provisions in the GNSO Operating Procedures
regarding introduction of motions that staff can provide prior to our call.<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">> It is all in the
g-counci Procedures.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">> And is says nothing on reconsideration or rescinding of
decisions already made.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
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font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> -----Original Message-----<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> From: <a
href="mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a> [<a
href="mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a>] On Behalf
Of Avri Doria<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 10:16 PM<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> To: Jeff
Neuman; <a href="mailto:gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> Cc: Jonathan Robinson<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> Subject: Re:
[gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> Hi,<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> I guess I do not support that.<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> I think a
motion should only be voted on once. and that to bring it back, something
must have changed or a reasonable amount of time should have past.<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> And no we use
votes to count the up to the thresholds defined for motions to pass. We may
euphemistically use the word consensus, but it has NOTHING to do with
consensus. If anything the consensus is in the work of the WGs and not in the
votes of the management team, i.e. g-council.<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>> I believe that what happened in that
meeting is something that should never be allowed to happen again. And if we
need rules to keep the chair from doing things like that, something I admit
never entered my imagination of things that could go wrong, then we need
new rules.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>> A thought experiment: Just imagine the uproar in
the council if an NCUC based g-council chair had dared to some like this when
the vote did not go her way.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>> avri<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>> On 8 Jan 2013, at 21:24, Neuman, Jeff
wrote:<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>
Avri,<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> Yes, I know we use voting to measure
consensus. But in the end, the spirit is to achieve consensus on policy
items. The fact that it took two votes to do so should not prejudice the
results. Again, if there was some evidence of wrong doing, fraud
etc., that would be one thing. But that did not happen.<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> I support
the ability to re-vote on any item unless there is evidence of misconduct,
harassment, fraud, etc.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> Best regards,<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> Sent from
iPad. Please excuse any typos.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> -----Original Message-----<br style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> From: Avri Doria [<a
href="mailto:avri@xxxxxxxx"; target="_blank">mailto:avri@xxxxxxxx</a>]<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> Sent:
Tuesday, January 08, 2013 08:29 PM Eastern Standard Time<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> To:
Neuman, Jeff<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> Cc: <a
href="mailto:gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a>; Jonathan Robinson<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> Subject:
Re: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> Hi,<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> Sorry, that may be what the
reviews intended at one point, but that is not what the current regulations
say. Due to the agreement between the SG at the time, a very strict voting
regime was adopted and approved by the Board for the g-council. G-council has
such a complicated voting structure that the Secretariat has a special tool to
help them figure out when a motion has passed or not.<br style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> To now claim that g-council is a
consensus body does not match the reality of the situation.<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> avri<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>> On 8 Jan
2013, at 19:37, Neuman, Jeff wrote:<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> I will restate what I said on
the Council call. We are not supposed to as a group focus on voting. We are
supposed to come to "consensus" on items. If there is a
"consensus" at any time of the Council on any given policy
(provided that the processes were followed by the working group making the
recommendation), then that is what should govern. The last evolution
and reform of icann report by the London School of Economics as supported by
the Board Governance Committee emphasized this over and over again. We are not
supposed to be a voting body, so lets focus back on consensus.<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> All of
the comments I have seen from those that did not like the result in the last
council meeting have not addressed the fact that ultimately there was a
"consensus" on the issue. The fact that there had to be a second
measurement of consensus on the item to me seems irrelevant and unnecessarily
procedural. There was no abuse of process. There was no abuse within the
working group making the recommendation. There is not evidence that there were
improper conflicts, etc. Absent any showing of abuse, harassment,
fraud, illegality, or willful negligence, I believe having a second
measurement of consensus is not an issue.<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> Best regards,<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>>
Jeffrey J. Neuman<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> Sent from iPad. Please excuse any typos.<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>>
-----Original Message-----<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> From: Avri Doria [<a
href="mailto:avri@xxxxxxxx"; target="_blank">mailto:avri@xxxxxxxx</a>]<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> Sent:
Tuesday, January 08, 2013 05:31 PM Eastern Standard Time<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> To: <a
href="mailto:gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx";
target="_blank">gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx</a><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> Cc: Jonathan Robinson;
Neuman, Jeff<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> Subject: Re:
[gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> On 8 Jan 2013, at
17:16, Ron Andruff wrote:<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>>> Assuming that the ultimate desired
outcome was for Councillors to vote as they were permitted to (and possibly
directed to by their group), two remedies were possible.<br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> I take
real issue with this in that this can only be the case when it is accordance
with adherence to all rules of neutrality, transparency and
accountability.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> Once a vote is given, it is taken and
clues from anyone on how to make the vote work out better are not, in my
view or the view of my stakeholder group, legitimate. It is not for voter
to decide that they should be able vote they way they meant to when they voted
another way. If it was, those poor old jewish voters on finding out the
ballot in Florida was confusing could have taken back their votes for
Buchanan, and Gore would have been President of the US. and yes, we may
wish with all our hearts that it had been otherwise, but it wasn't.
Voting does not work according to wishes unsaid, it works in terms of the
vote given.<br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>> avri<br style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>>>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
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font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif">>><br style="font-size: 10pt;
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