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[gnso-improvem-impl-sc] RE: For Discussion: Amendments to Motions
- To: "'Julie Hedlund'" <julie.hedlund@xxxxxxxxx>, "gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx" <gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] RE: For Discussion: Amendments to Motions
- From: "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" <AAikman@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 23:28:59 +0000
Dear SCI members,
Based on Rudi’s suggestion that we explore the topic of amendments to motions
on the list, I am offering a few thoughts:
1. When addressing a proposed amendment to a motion, it may be that the
first question should be whether Councilors feel they can vote on the amendment
at the meeting where the motion is being considered, or must table the motion
until Councilors are able to consult with their constituencies and stakeholder
groups. There is a custom for being able to delay a motion by one meeting and
this may be a good place to use it – at the discretion of the Chair of the
Council. Could this sort of discussion occur without the need for a vote? In
other words, could the amended Operating Procedure call for discussion and
then the Chair would have discretion as to whether or not to delay the voting
on the amendment?
2. My view is that the maker of the motion should have some say as to
whether or not the motion will be amended before voting. If he or she says
“no” to the proposed amendment, then it seems to me it is up to the person
requesting the amendment to request that the motion be delayed to the next
meeting – for purposes of further discussion and working out differences of
opinion. Then the Chair has discretion to delay or not delay, based on custom
and practice. Delaying the vote would allow for discussion among Councilors as
to the desirability of the amendment, but of course may not always be possible
given time constraints. It also seems, however, that if the Chair elects not
to delay voting on the motion, then there should be a vote as to whether the
motion should be amended or not prior to bringing it to a vote.
3. I believe that the current practice is that if the amendment is
accepted by the motion maker, Council Chair checks with the seconder. If the
seconder agrees, the motion goes forward to a vote as amended. If the seconder
opposes the amendment, then Council votes on whether or not the amendment will
be added to the motion. The question here is whether an amendment should in
fact move forward based on a simple majority vote even if the seconder opposes.
Thus, the alternatives seem to be
(A) vote on the motion with amendment if simple majority carries amendment
(current practice – will Councilors and staff please confirm?)
(B) vote on the motion without the amendment (party suggesting amendment may
ask for delay in voting to next meeting)
(C ) Chair delays the vote to give more time for resolution of disagreement and
possible withdrawal of original motion with submission of amended motion prior
to next meeting.
(D) If Chair does not delay the vote, vote on whether or not the amendment
should be made prior to bringing the motion to a vote. (But is this the same
as A?)
4. Some of the considerations:
a. Time to consult constituencies and stakeholders if needed.
b. Efficiency of Council business getting done.
c. Whether or not the amendment should be allowed at the same meeting.
d. Whether a party may choose to withhold a proposed amendment until the
time of the Council meeting if Council Operating Procedures favor introducing
it late. (“gaming” concerns)
As usual, it’s a balancing act. In this regard, it may be useful in our next
meeting in September to take up the example of the proposed Issues Report for
the next round which was the subject of an amendment in the meeting in
Argentina and run it through a hypothetical procedure that should apply to
amendments to motions.
This is simply “food for thought” in August. Sorry if the above is confusing.
Hopefully we will get some further discussion before our September call.
Best wishes to all,
Anne
[cid:image001.gif@01D0CA0D.79342330]
Anne E. Aikman-Scalese, Of Counsel
Lewis Roca Rothgerber LLP |
One South Church Avenue Suite 700 | Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611
(T) 520.629.4428 | (F) 520.879.4725
AAikman@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:AAikman@xxxxxxxxxx> |
www.LRRLaw.com<http://www.lrrlaw.com/>
From:
owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julie Hedlund
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 1:26 PM
To: gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] For Discussion: Amendments to Motions
Dear SCI members,
On today's call the SCI began a discussion concerning whether the informal GNSO
Council customs relating to amendments to motions should be incorporated in the
GNSO Operating Procedures and, if so, in what form. For background on the
issue, please see the attached Review Request. Here is a brief summary of the
points raised in the discussion. I've included the relevant discussion from
the Chat Room below and the transcript will be circulated separately. I would
be grateful to those who were in the meeting to let me know whether there were
any points I missed and whether there is additional information to inform this
discussion.
Key Points:
* The GNSO Operating Procedures do not contain any guidance concerning
amendments of any sort, or define "friendly" and "unfriendly". There also is
no guidance on seconding motions.
* The current informal custom is that the person who proposes a motion
decides whether an amendment is friendly or not. (See the attached Review
Request for a full description of the current practice.)
* Roberts Rules of Order treat amendments as neutral (neither friendly or
unfriendly).
* The current informal custom in the Council is that if an amendment is
deemed unfriendly then a vote is held on the motion (threshold: simply
majority).
* Voting on amendments is standard outside of the GNSO/ICANN community.
* Timing of the submission of amendments has been problematic, sometimes
not allowing time for consultation with constituencies and stakeholder groups.
The SCI members on the call today decided that discussion on this issue should
continue on the list and at the next meeting. In particular, members should
consider whether the GNSO Operating Procedures should be revised to include
specific procedures on amendments. Possible procedures to include could be:
* Timing of submission of amendments;
* Defining "friendly" and "unfriendly";
* When and how votes on amendments are conducted; and
* When and how amendments are seconded.
Please send any comments in response to this message as the start of the
discussion thread.
Best regards,
Julie
Julie Hedlund, Policy Director
Chat Room:
Lori Schulman:Are "friendly" and "unfriendly" defined in the GNSO procedures.
Julie Hedlund:@Lori: No, there is nothing in the Procedures addressing
amendments of either kind.
Lori Schulman:Without a definition, how do we delineate a procdure?
Julie Hedlund:@Lori: We would have to consider whether to incorporate a
definition in the addition to the procedures. We could probably use Roberts
Rules of Order as a guide.
ken stubbs - afilias:15 years ago for me (joined council)
ken stubbs - afilias:+1 avri
Amr Elsadr:@Avri: In BA, council also voted on whether to accept the amended
language before voting on the motion.
Avri Doria:under the tradion on the maker of the motion and seconder get to
decide if it is friendly. rudi issue is the crix of the issue on friendly
motions. who owns changing it?
Lori Schulman:I tend to agree with Roberts. Amendments should be agnostic.
Lori Schulman:neither friendly nor unfriendly.
Mary Wong:The consequence of characterizing a proposed amendment as friendly
or not is whether or not the Council will then first need to vote on the
proposed amendment (whether to accept it)
Mary Wong:Again, it's Council custom - first vote on amendment if considered
unfriendly
Mary Wong:Needs majority to add the amendment to the original motion
Avri Doria:voting on amendments is the standard even in the real world.
Lori Schulman:yup
Julie Hedlund:@Avri: You mean we aren't in the real world ;-)
Mary Wong:Yup just pointing out the consequence
Lori Schulman:+1 to Avri's comment about the "real" world.
Avri Doria:Julie, you tell me. I can't ever tell for sure.
Julie Hedlund:@Avri: Then we are both lost since I'm not sure either :-)
Rudi Vansnick:"friendly" is to me a personal (human) perception not procedural
Amr Elsadr:@Rudi: Yes..., which is why it is highly subjective.
Avri Doria:i have to chair a IGF type meeting on the hour so will drop off at
around xx58
Angie Graves:I agree with Amr. Are we working against an agreed-upon
definition of "friendly"?
Avri Doria:for a bit of history, when i first becasme GNSO chair in
antiquity, i tried to get rid of the whole friendly ammendment thing. at that
time i was told to leave it alone. now, after all these years i have grown
accustomed to it.
Amr Elsadr:I wouldn't try to define friendly here.
Amr Elsadr:Seems unnecessary to me.
Angie Graves:Me neither. Just wondering if one exists.
ken stubbs:sorry.. wifi wnt down for a few min
Amr Elsadr:@Angie: I think you're friendly. Does that count? ;-)
Angie Graves:hehe
Angie Graves:me too you!
Avri Doria:continue to discuss on list?
Lori Schulman:I think that if you want to codify rules around friendly
amendments then you need to define them
Amr Elsadr:@Avri: +1
Angie Graves:Thanks, Avri
ken stubbs:awareness needs to be made at council level before we move much
further
Avri Doria:some mornig i wake up and know i am not going to be all that
friendly that day.
Amr Elsadr:@Lori: I only meant that if we work out and suggest codified
rules, those will determine how friendly amendments may be submitted and
accepted without us having to define it now. That's all.
Lori Schulman:Amr: got it.
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