[gnso-osc-ops] Re: GCOT Documents: Voting, Term Limits, and Absences

[Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx>]

Hi,

Yes and my recommendation would be:

> (a) the vote is simply not cast 

It is their job to be at the meetings except in dire circumstance.  All of this 
is just enabling absence.

For PDP decisions and other bylaw responsibilities, ok, there needs to be an 
accommodation to full representation, but for whether people are going to meet 
for a breakfast meeting at the next face to face meeting, it seems to be 
overkill.  Also we are really getting bound up in voting and creating vast  and 
complicated regimes, using vast numbers of staff and contractor hours, for 
something that is supposed to be an exception within a consensus based 
organization.

a.


On 31 Mar 2010, at 09:39, Ken Bour wrote:

> Ray:
> 
> Actually, according to what I have drafted in Section 3.8 (thus far), your
> scenario would play out like this:
> 
> Ex: Councilor will be absent from a meeting (incidental):
>       Q: Can he/she vote using absentee balloting within the time limit?
> 
>               If YES, then no abstention is needed and the electronic vote
> is registered.
>               If NO, then an abstention would be filed and a remedy
> applied (if SG/C so desires). 
> 
> I believe Avri is suggesting that absentee voting be reserved for rare
> situations, which implies to me that, for every case of incidental absence,
> either (a) the vote is simply not cast or (b) an abstention would have to be
> filed and a remedy applied (Proxy or TA). 
> 
> Ken
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Fassett [mailto:ray@xxxxxxxxx] 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:09 AM
> To: 'Ken Bour'; 'Avri Doria'; 'gnso-osc-ops'
> Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-ops] Re: GCOT Documents: Voting, Term Limits, and
> Absences
> 
> Ok, so I am trying to understand this.  In the example, a Council member has
> some last minute reason to not be able to attend a meeting.  This meeting
> has a voting action.  The Councilor notifies the Chair his/her desire to
> abstain as a placeholder to retain the vote.  Within 24 hours (I know it
> says 72 hrs right now) the SG may implement one of two available remedies,
> TA or Proxy, if they wish to have the vote changed from the recorded
> abstention.
> 
> Is this pretty much it?
> 
> Ray
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gnso-osc-ops@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-osc-ops@xxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Ken Bour
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:20 PM
> To: 'Avri Doria'; 'gnso-osc-ops'
> Subject: [gnso-osc-ops] Re: GCOT Documents: Voting, Term Limits, and
> Absences
> 
> 
> Avri & GCOT Members:
> 
> I have to agree with you in part.  I erred in using the word "must" in my
> hypothetical example.  I did not mean to imply that this type of abstention
> would be "obligatory."   I should have written, "I cannot attend and,
> because there is no standard option to vote using alternative means, I elect
> (volitional) to abstain so that my SG/C will not lose its opportunity to
> vote on the matter at issue."  Once the abstention is announced, per Section
> 4.5, the SG/C would then have the ability to exercise a remedy, e.g. Proxy
> or Temporary Alternate (Voting Direction will not apply in this instance). 
> 
> It still seems less administratively complex to permit absentee voting --
> perhaps with a shorter time allowance -- than engendering a new class of
> abstentions caused by incidental absence. 
> 
> Ken Bour
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gnso-osc-ops@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-osc-ops@xxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Avri Doria
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:53 AM
> To: gnso-osc-ops
> Subject: [gnso-osc-ops] Re: GCOT Documents: Voting, Term Limits, and
> Absences
> 
> 
> hi,
> 
>> "I cannot attend and am not allowed
>> to vote using alternative means, therefore, I must abstain." 
> 
> i do not see the logic of this at all.  how could this possibly be an
> obligatory abstention?  if it is, then our definitons are too loose and need
> to be reviewed.
> 
> I think that a preferable solution would be one of the other alternatives -
> some form of the proxy.  or rather get to the meeting if you want to have a
> vote with rare exception for really important matter like initiating a PDP
> or electing someone chair.
> 
> if we feel that 100% is required for all votes, then i am almost included to
> say meetings are for discussion only, but all votes will be offline.  
> 
> a.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 27 Mar 2010, at 01:17, Ken Bour wrote:
> 
>> Avri and GCOT Members:
>> 
>> Avri raised a point of view I had not previously considered.  
>> 
>> Given the GCOT's strong preference to never change the voting 
>> denominator, it strikes me that making absentee voting a "rarity" will 
>> only increase the need for abstention remedies, that is, "I cannot 
>> attend and am not allowed to vote using alternative means, therefore, 
>> I must abstain."  Given what the team has recommended in GOP Section 
>> 4.5, an abstention would be the next best option, which would call 
>> into
> play a remedy (e.g. voting direction,
>> proxy, or temporary alternate).   
>> 
>> I do understand Arvi's concern about delaying Council action, but will 
>> it be preferable to incur an abstention remedy vs. an absentee ballot 
>> for every occurrence of incidental absence?
>> 
>> Although meeting attendance is always preferred, I initially thought 
>> that absentee voting should be allowed whenever a Councilor could not 
>> be present at a regular session, but was otherwise able to vote in a 
>> timely manner -- thus avoiding the need for an abstention.  If timing 
>> is at issue, we could shrink down the absentee ballot duration from 72 
>> hours to as little as 24 except for those "important" votes when it is 
>> critical have all opinions registered.
>> 
>> Ken Bour
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-gnso-osc-ops@xxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:owner-gnso-osc-ops@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 8:55 PM
>> To: gnso-osc-ops
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-osc-ops] GCOT Documents: Voting, Term Limits, and 
>> Absences
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I tend to prefer absentee voting as a rarity.  Something done on only 
>> the most important votes.  If not, it means no vote will ever be 
>> completed in a council meeting as there is rarely ever a meeting that 
>> everyone attends.  i think this is  a bad result and slows down a slow
> council even further.
>> 
>> so I do not support the option listed below.
>> 
>> a.
>> 
>> On 26 Mar 2010, at 16:30, Ken Bour wrote:
>> 
>>> Wolf-Ulrich, Ken, and GCOT Members:
>>> 
>>> I think I understand the objection raised by Wolf and seconded by Ken.
>> Based upon feedback that I received from other Council Members, there 
>> may be circumstances when absentee voting is not appropriate and we 
>> might
> want to
>> provide an option to handle such conditions -- even if rare.   Suppose we
>> try restructuring the language so that the default condition is that 
>> absentee voting is allowed exceptin a rare circumstance, which would 
>> then require the agreement of the Chair and all Vice-Chairs present.
>> See new version of 4.4.1 below (the others are presented for context).
>>> 
>>> 4.4.1  Council Members who are absent from a meeting at the time of a 
>>> vote
>> will be extended the opportunity to cast a ballot using alternative 
>> means (see 4.4.3) except in a rare circumstance when its use is deemed
>> inappropriate.   If such an inappropriate circumstance arises, the
> rationale
>> for suspending absentee balloting must be announced in advance of the 
>> vote by the Chair and any decision to suspend requires verbal 
>> confirmation by all Vice-Chairs present.  In such a circumstance(s), 
>> and only for the affected vote(s), absentee voting will be temporarily
> disallowed.
>>> 
>>> 4.4.2  Absentee votes must be submitted within the announced time 
>>> limit,
>> which shall be seventy-two (72) hours from the meeting’s adjournment.  
>> In exceptional circumstances, announced at the time of the vote, the 
>> Chair may reduce this time to twenty-four (24) hours or extend the 
>> time to a maximum of seven (7) calendar days, provided such amendment 
>> is verbally confirmed by all Vice-Chairs present.
>>> 
>>> 4.4.3  The GNSO Secretariat will administer, record, and tabulate 
>>> absentee
>> votes according to these procedures and will provide reasonable means 
>> for transmitting and authenticating absentee ballots, which could 
>> include telephone, e- mail, web-based interface, or other technologies 
>> as may become available.
>>> 
>>> The above solution is much more in keeping with my original reason 
>>> for
>> recommending an alteration to this section of the GOP and I thank Wolf and
>> Ken for raising their concerns.   
>>> 
>>> Does it satisfactorily resolve the essence of the objections?   
>>> 
>>> Ken Bour
>>> 
>>> From: KnobenW@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:KnobenW@xxxxxxxxxx]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 12:11 PM
>>> To: ken.bour@xxxxxxxxxxx; gnso-osc-ops@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: AW: [gnso-osc-ops] GCOT Documents: Voting, Term Limits, and
>> Absences
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Ken.
>>> 
>>> I don't feel comfortable with the modified 4.4.1 leaving it up to the
>> Chair / VCs to "grant" an opportunity for absentee voting. What in 
>> case if they don't find consensus on that? I'd rather prefer to allow 
>> absentee voting in any case - iterative voting seems a bit artificial
>> - or keep it restricted to the cases as before.
>>> The other modofications of Chapter 4 are ok to me.
>>> 
>>> Section 2.1 - Council member term limits: agreed
>>> 
>>> Section 3.8 - Absences and vacancies: separate comment shall follow
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Wolf-Ulrich
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Von: owner-gnso-osc-ops@xxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:owner-gnso-osc-ops@xxxxxxxxx] Im
>> Auftrag von Ken Bour
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. März 2010 23:32
>>> An: gnso-osc-ops@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Betreff: [gnso-osc-ops] GCOT Documents: Voting, Term Limits, and 
>>> Absences
>>> 
>>> GCOT:
>>> 
>>> I have modified three documents and present them to the Work Team for
>> review.    I suggest taking them up in the order presented below... 
>>> 
>>> 1)      Section 2.1-Council Member Term Limits
>>> a)      Changes to 2.1.1 and 2.1.2 per GCOT’s teleconference on 24 March
>> (redlined).
>>> 2)      Chapter 4-Voting  [Revised 24 March 2010 and marked as OSC
> Version
>> #2]
>>> a)      4.3-Motions and Votes:  added language to clarify that a
>> reason/explanation may be provided when entering Y and N votes in addition
>> to abstentions when it is always required.   This matter was raised by
> Steve
>> Metalitz at the OSC meeting in Nairobi. 
>>> b)     Section 4.4-Absentee Voting:  replacement language to permit
>> alternate voting mechanisms (e.g. electronic) when approved by the 
>> Chair and ratified by all Vice-Chairs present.
>>> c)      Section 4.5-Abstentions:  added a new clause (see 4.5.3-c-vi)
> that
>> occurred to me when writing the Absences material (below).   A Temporary
>> Alternate, if/when it affects a Council officer (e.g. Chair or
> Vice-Chair),
>> should not imply that the TA assumes that officer’s responsibilities.   I
>> wanted to make that explicit to avoid any potential confusion. 
>>> 3)      Section 3.8-Absences and Vacancies
>>> a)      Complete replacement for the original 3.8 to include handling:
>> incidental absences, leaves of absence (planned and unplanned), and
>> vacancies.   The vacancies material was drafted in response to Steve
>> Metalitz’ question at the Nairobi OSC session as to whether a vacancy
> would
>> result in a reduction to the voting denominator.   The procedures were
>> previously silent on that matter, so I thought it should be addressed.   
>>> 
>>> Note:  the above revisions have not been reviewed by Legal. 
>>> 
>>> Please let me know if there is anything else that I can do to assist 
>>> the
>> GCOT in completing these remaining sections. 
>>> 
>>> Ken Bour
>>> 
>>> P.S.  I will begin drafting the generalized Board Seat Elections 
>>> material
>> which will go into Section 2.4 of the GOP replacing Annex 1.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>