Re: [gnso-osc] RE: Further Council Ops Procedures Thoughts

["David W. Maher" <dmaher@xxxxxxx>]

fwiw, I agree with Chuck. There is a real 
difference between abstaining and not voting.
David

At 01:45 PM 9/23/2009, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
> Thanks Ray.  In reality I guess an abstention is 
> a nonvote.  The problem with using the term 
> nonvote though is that it implies that someone 
> didn't participate in the vote. Abstaining is 
> not the same as not voting in my opinion.  I 
> agree that key is that the abstentioins are counted toward the % calculation.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> ----------
> From: Ray Fassett [mailto:ray@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:09 AM
> To: Gomes, Chuck; gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Further Council Ops Procedures Thoughts
>
> I did look at this last night, Chuck, and 
> thought about the very question you are asking 
> me.  I did not think so last night and I do not 
> think so this morning.  Obviously, recording 
> abstentions as non votes is a change.  But, the 
> denominator remains fixed, consistent to what 
> the GCOT WT members find most important about 
> this, being about ?total possible? votes (so as 
> to avoid the ability to manipulate percentages 
> under various scenarios).  Personally, I am not 
> sure what the purpose is of an abstention 
> counting as a non vote if the denominator is 
> going to remain fixed (I agree the denominator 
> must remain fixed as defined).  It?s like 
> splitting hairs or something.  So, ok an 
> abstention is recorded as a non vote but at the 
> end of the day it is not a vote for so with the 
> denominator remaining fixed, it is a ?vote? not 
> a non vote (i.e. is a vote against in the 
> practical sense).  If I have just reasoned this 
> out correctly, then I do not feel the GCOT WT 
> will have an issue with making the proposed edit 
> as stated below (just personally not sure what 
> is trying to be accomplished, assuming I am interpreting correctly).
>
>
>
> Ray
>
>
>
> ----------
> From: Gomes, Chuck [mailto:cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:41 AM
> To: Ray Fassett; gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: FW: Further Council Ops Procedures Thoughts
> Importance: High
>
>
>
> Ray,
>
>
>
> Do you see any problems from the point of view 
> of the GCOT regarding the following, in 
> particular the amendments at the end and using 
> the reformatted document for public comment?
>
>
>
> OSC members: Please send any comments you have 
> on the following today because this will be 
> discussed in the Council meeting early tomorrow.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> ----------
> From: Robert Hoggarth [mailto:robert.hoggarth@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:40 PM
> To: Gomes, Chuck; Avri Doria
> Cc: Glen de Saint Géry; Ray Fassett; Liz 
> Gasster; Denise Michel; Julie Hedlund; Margie Milam
> Subject: Further Council Ops Procedures Thoughts
>
> Dear Avri and Chuck;
>
> Ken Bour and I spent a couple of hours today 
> going over the new Bylaws and the recommended 
> Council Ops Procedures in an effort to better 
> understand the issues behind the recent brief 
> dialogue on abstentions with Kristina and 
> Phillip on the Council email list AND in an 
> effort to test and or break the ops processes and voting mechanisms.
>
> As a result of our effort, we have have come up 
> with a number of ideas/concepts we wanted to 
> float by you prior to the Council meeting.
>
> 1.   We?ve developed some edits to the 
> recommendations ? specifically Section 5.4 (# of 
> votes cast) and section 3.5 (Quorum) that we 
> think address the affirmative vote/no vote 
> abstaining issue by providing some more clarity 
> to the recommended voting procedure.  That 
> potential compromise language is set forth at the end of this message.
>
> 2.   At the conclusion of the Work Team?s 
> deliberations, noting that the team had focused 
> on the substance of each specific recommendation 
> and not on the overall format of the procedures, 
> I suggested to Ray Fassett (copying Ray on this 
> message) that in preparation for the public 
> comment period, Staff could work on the format 
> and presentation of the recommendations to make 
> them more clear and clean. We?ve started some 
> work in that regard ? not making any substantive 
> changes, but merely trying to pull different 
> sections together and consolidating common 
> subjects areas (e.g., voting ) where there may 
> be references in more than one section of the 
> recommendations.  We should have a suggested 
> format finished for you all to take a look at tomorrow.
>
> 3.   We discussed the conundrum of the incoming 
> Council voting on the Ops Procedures (before new 
> voting procedures exist).  We suggest that you 
> consider creating a procedural bridge between 
> the two Councils in which the outgoing Council 
> ?conditionally approves? the new procedures as a 
> transitional matter (perhaps this could take 
> place at a ?special? Council meeting during the 
> weekend in Seoul) and then have the incoming 
> Council ratify them as its first order of 
> business.  The new Council could then make 
> changes over time as it works with and develops 
> some experience with the new procedures. Haven?t 
> discussed this with the GC yet ? just brainstorming.
>
> 4.   We have also started to develop a a 
> matrix/voting record spreadsheet as an 
> unofficial tool for the new Chair and Glen to 
> use for recording votes.  The idea is to have a 
> clear and understandable score sheet that can be 
> used during votes to easily show when voting 
> thresholds have been met (or not). We?ll get 
> Glen?s feedback on the concept and share that 
> with you when she is comfortable with a draft document.
>
> We are hopeful that the language suggested below 
> is useful. Your comments are most welcomed.
>
> Cheers,
>
> RobH
>
> SUGGESTED REVISED LANGUAGE FOLLOWS. SUGGESTED 
> CHANGES IN BOLD RED UNDERLINED TEXT.
>
> In the recommended Council Operating Procedures, 
> we suggest some new language to modify Section 5.4 and 3.5 as follows:
>
> 5.4 The Number of Votes Cast
>
> OLD: To pass, a motion must attain a majority of 
> the votes cast in each house unless otherwise 
> specified in these procedures or in the ICANN 
> Bylaws. Abstentions count as votes cast and 
> shall include a reason for the abstention.  This 
> has the effect of making an abstention count the 
> same as a vote against except as described in 
> ICANN Bylaws, ANNEX A, GNSO Policy-Development 
> Process, Section 3, Initiation of PDP.  [INSERT LIVE LINK TO THE BYLAWS.]
>
>
> NEW:  Unless otherwise specified in these 
> procedures or in the ICANN Bylaws, to pass a 
> motion or other action, greater than 50% of the 
> eligible voters in each House must cast 
> affirmative votes.  For all votes taken, the 
> number of eligible voters in each House shall be 
> fixed to the number of seats allocated in the 
> Bylaws (a.k.a. the denominator) and is not 
> affected by the number of members present or 
> absent at the meeting in which the motion or 
> other action is initiated.  Abstentions shall be 
> recorded as non-votes and shall include a reason.
>
> 3.5. Quorum
>
> OLD: In order for the GNSO Council to initiate a 
> meeting a quorum must be present.  A quorum is a 
> majority of voting members, which includes at 
> least one member of each Stakeholder Group. 
> [INSERT LIVE LINK TO BYLAWS.] Whenever a vote is taken there must be a quorum.
>
> NEW: In order for the GNSO Council to initiate a 
> vote, a quorum must be present.  A quorum is a 
> majority of voting members in each House, which 
> includes at least one member of each Stakeholder Group.
>
> ***END SUGGESTED LANGUAGE ***
David W. Maher
Senior Vice President - Law & Policy
.ORG, The Public Interest Registry
1775 Wiehle Ave, #200
Reston, VA 20190  USA
(v) +1-312-876-8055
(f)  +1-312-876-7934
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