RE: [gnso-pednr-dt] Revised Recommendations

[Rob Hall <rob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Alan,

I fail to see how changing the DNS from what it originally was would not fit 
all scenarios.

What the Registrar or a third party does with it after that is irrelevant.  
That is for the Registrar to decide within their business model.  We should not 
be in the business of trying to determine what a Registrars business model is 
or should be in the future.  In fact, it is exactly this differentiation that 
leads to competition and increased consumer choice.

We should be concentrating on more high level things that can easily be 
implemented and monitored.    A simple one liner that a Registrar must change 
the DNS server for X days from what it was at exipry should work.  No ?

Rob.



From: owner-gnso-pednr-dt@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-pednr-dt@xxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Alan Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 5:21 PM
To: Rob Hall; Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
Cc: Michael Young; 'PEDNR'
Subject: RE: [gnso-pednr-dt] Revised Recommendations

Rob, I sent a message addressing this, but it seems to have been delayed (I now 
have received my copy).

Regardless, I would be very happy with what you propose. However, as you know, 
many registrars currently do intercept web traffic after expiration, and the 
wording of this recommendation was our attempt at not doing anything which 
would substantively disrupt their normal business practices.

Alan

At 16/02/2011 05:14 PM, Rob Hall wrote:

Alan,

I believe it to be dangerous to be talking about other services a Registrar may 
or may not have under their control.  For example running an DNS server.

We should be keeping the resolutions to what occurs at the Registry level, not 
what third parties may do.

To do otherwise will only lead to confusion and loopholes.  Any solution down 
this path will be very convoluted.

If the group agrees a domain must not resolve, then change the DNS.  Full stop.

Rob

From: alan.greenberg@xxxxxxxxxxxx [ mailto:alan.greenberg@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Alan Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 5:00 PM
To: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond; Rob Hall
Cc: Michael Young; 'PEDNR'
Subject: Re: [gnso-pednr-dt] Revised Recommendations

Olivier, to be clear, "14a (old #15a)" says that everything must stop working 
as it did during the specified period, as a mechanism to alert the registered 
name holder that they are about to loose their domain name. Currently, and 
presumably into the future, most registrars do "intercept" most web access, and 
"14b (old #15b)" addresses this situation.

As Rob points out, there are many ways to disable the domain completely, and 
all would satisfy "14a (old #15a)". If a registrar chooses to intercept web 
traffic, there are generally two ways that they can do this. If that registrar 
already host the DNS entries for that domain, they could change the A record 
and change it back if and when the domain is renewed. If the registrar does not 
control the DNS that the domain points to, or even if they do, they can change 
it to point to a different DNS that is under their control, and change it back 
if the domain is ultimately renewed.

These are the techniques that are generally used today - we are not inventing 
anything here.

Alan



At 16/02/2011 11:09 AM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote:

+1

I've just written to Michael about this:

--- quote ---
"
may I ask how this would be effected?

Would other services for that domain name still work?

If that's the case, then the Registrar would need to make a full copy of
the RNHaE's domain file, and only change the records for the
www.example.com<http://www.example.com/> address, and of course define the 
nameservers for that
domain into its own nameservers.
If on the other hand, all other services also get stopped, then it's
just a case of defining the nameserver for that domain as the
Registrar's nameserver & pointing the www.example.com<http://www.example.com/> 
address to a
suitable page."

--- end quote ---

Kind regards,

Olivier



Le 16/02/2011 16:45, Rob Hall a écrit :
> I don't think that does work.  Neither does actually.
>
> We have to keep in mind that the only thing the Registrar actually can change 
> on the domain is the DNS servers.   While the Registrar may choose to put 
> their own DNS servers there, and then direct the website as they see fit, 
> they should not be required to.
>
> It should be perfectly acceptable for the Registrar to change the DNS server 
> to nothing.  Or to simply put the domain on hold, which has the effect of 
> removing the DNS servers from the zone.
>
> A Registrar should not have to change the DNS server to something that 
> actually resolves to a website.  This places a burden on the Registrar that 
> does not currently exist.  There is no requirement in any contract for the 
> Registrar to operate DNS servers, nor web servers, to point client domains at.
>
> I understand the intent, but I don't believe you have captured anything 
> workable here.
>
> Might I suggest that it simply be
>
> "Registrar causes the DNS servers in the zone to be changed."
>
> This would capture both putting the domain on hold which would cause the DNS 
> servers to be removed, as well as a Registrar changing them to a new set.  In 
> either case, the original website would not resolve.
>
> Rob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gnso-pednr-dt@xxxxxxxxx [ mailto:owner-gnso-pednr-dt@xxxxxxxxx] 
> On Behalf Of Michael Young
> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:27 AM
> To: 'Alan Greenberg'; 'PEDNR'
> Subject: RE: [gnso-pednr-dt] Revised Recommendations
>
>
> Alan this should, I believe, suffice.
>
> Replace
>
> Registrar directs port 80 traffic (Web) to a web server other than the one
> used by the RNHaE prior to expiration,
>
> with
>
> Registrar changes the DNS resolution path to effect a different landing
> website than the one used by the RNHaE prior to expiration,
>
>
> Michael Young
>
> M:+1-647-289-1220
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Greenberg [ mailto:alan.greenberg@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: February-16-11 2:30 AM
> To: PEDNR
> Subject: [gnso-pednr-dt] Revised Recommendations
>
> I listened to the MP3 and hope that I caught all of the suggested changes.
>
> The document here shows all of the change to the actual recommendations. The
> comments and old Status column were removed and a Rationale column added. I
> also added a new column for a suggested ordering of the recommendations.
> Probably not perfect, but it at least groups the similar ones together and
> in a rational order within each grouping.
>
> A few things that I noted while making the changes.
>
> - I don't suggest doing anything about it on this iteration, but after the
> comment period, we probably should look at old Rec 7 and 9.
> They seem to overlap and could use some cleanup.
>
> - I realized that in my eagerness to accept James' VERY simplified version
> of old Rec 6 (disclosure of renewal price), something important was lost
> from the older version. The new version only talks about registrars that
> have a web presence for registration/renewal.
> Those registrars who work solely through resellers are thus exempted which
> was certainly not my intent, nor, I think, that of the group. I suggested a
> new sentence be added putting back in the requirement to disclose renewal
> price either in the registration agreement or pointed to it. I did not
> include the RGP price but that could easily be added as well (but did not
> want to go outside of the intent of the original Rec.). The wording could
> probably be enhanced, but this should work for now, if all agree.
>
> - On rewording old Rec 14a (very old 15a) to replace "immediately"
> with "commercially reasonable delay" as per the suggestion (I think from
> James), I found the wording rather awkward. I included an alternative
> working with the sentence inverted. I think it reads a bit better.
>
> - Still to come is the revised wording from Michael on the port 80
> interception.
>
> Please review and let me know if I got anything wrong or otherwise messed up
> (now 2:30 am and past the point where I can proof-read my own work).
>
> Alan
>
>

--
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
http://www.gih.com/ocl.html