Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in Working Group Guidelines

[Stéphane Van Gelder <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>]

It seems to me that what the Council needs is the PPSC's WG guidelines. We also 
need to know if the proposed text has the PPSC's consensus or not.

Beyond that, it is up to the Council to determine if the text should be put out 
for public comment or not. I would recommend that it be put out, but would also 
appreciate staff's guidance on this.

However, before we look at whether this goes out for public comment or not, the 
Council will first have to agree to the PPSC's recommendations for WG 
guidelines. If recent events on some of the OSC's proposals are anything to go 
by, the Council may send the text back to you guys to tweak parts of it.

Thanks,

Stéphane 

Le 13 déc. 2010 à 19:15, Avri Doria a écrit :

> 
> Hi,
> 
> Works for me.  Proper accountable behavior is all I am asking for.
> 
> BTW, are we confident we know who the functioning members of the PPSC are?  
> for the NCSg part, we are currently reviewing it, I am for example, the 2nd 
> alternate, but have been the one who has been participating.  The NCSG is 
> currently reviewing this and will let the powers that be know if we make any 
> changes.
> 
> a.
> 
> On 13 Dec 2010, at 12:10, J. Scott Evans wrote:
> 
>> Dear Jeff and Avri:
>> 
>> May I make a suggestion?  I propose that we put the revised Guidelines out 
>> to the full PPSC with a call for consensus.  We can also request a call for 
>> consensus on how to handle the issue of further public comments.  It seems 
>> to me that this would be far more efficient than a continued email debate 
>> from to immutable forces.  ;-)
>> 
>> J. Scott
>> 
>> 
>> j. scott evans - senior legal director, global brand and trademarks - Yahoo! 
>> Inc. - 408.349.1385 - jscottevans@xxxxxxxxx
>> 
>> 
>> From: Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx>
>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: 
>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 8:12:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in 
>> Working Group Guidelines
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Jeff,
>> 
>> With all due respect, I do not beleive I was at the Dec 5 meeting as I was 
>> attending the OSC meeting at the time.  And I think only 4 non-staff 
>> attended the Dec 1 call, including the two chairs.  I also ask , of those 
>> you listed as attending the meeting on Dec 5 and participating in the 
>> decision, how many were the actual PPSC representatives.  Again, I think we 
>> need to be strict about our methodology in decision making, and it is the 
>> members of the PPSC who are the ones who should be making the decisions via 
>> the consensus process:
>> 
>> from https://st.icann.org/icann-ppsc/index.cgi?ppsc_charter
>> 
>>> Decision Making for the PPSC
>>>    • Unless otherwise determined by the PPSC members, committee decisions 
>>> will be made using a “full consensus of the members” process.
>> 
>> 
>> - I had spoken previously about there really being no need for this to go to 
>> another community comment period.  I know public comment periods like  
>> mother's milk for ICANN, but the changes had not been substantive and many 
>> have spoken about the comment overload the community is going through.  
>> Also, we are talking about a set of guidelines not a PDP, so I thought just 
>> bringing them to a vote in the council, after doing a proper Stakeholder 
>> group review of the changes might have been enough.  If the Council believes 
>> it needs to go to public comment before it can vote on them, fine, let them 
>> so decide.  It is a matter of division of labor, the PPSC approves the work 
>> of the WGWT when it is ready to do so and think it has gone through the 
>> processes it needs and only then sends it to the council.  The council in 
>> its independent role from the PPSC decides what to do next.  I believe I 
>> argued this on Dec 1, but was overruled by the chairs.
>> 
>> - If we were to have PPSC consensus that a public comment is required, then 
>> it should be done by the PPSC itself since this is the group (or its 
>> designated sub-team) that would need to respond to any further comments.  We 
>> cannot have a comment period that ignores the responses, and the council in 
>> its managerial role can only send the document back to the PPSC to resolve 
>> any issues; it does not have the authority to act on them itself other than 
>> to vote against the proposed guidelines for faulty process. So why add 
>> another several Council meeting cycles to the process by requiring the 
>> council to first vote on a public comment period (and maybe push the vote 
>> off by another council meeting cycle as is the practice with nearly every 
>> vote these days), and then vote on sending the comment back to the PPSC.  
>> Asking the council to decide if another review period is necessary could add 
>> as much as 12 weeks to the process.  If we in the PPSC think it needs 
>> another comment period, the!
> n !
>> we should be the ones to just request it.
>> 
>> So yes, "just to be clear" I am against recommending to the council that it 
>> send this out for public comment.  To repeat:
>> 
>> - i am not convinced it is necessary
>> - i think it add up to 3 months to the process in the asking in addition to  
>> the month of review
>> - if it is necessary then we should be the ones to do it.
>> 
>> Additionally I do not believe we have taken a proper decision on this issue 
>> at this point.
>> 
>> With best regards,
>> 
>> 
>> a.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 13 Dec 2010, at 10:34, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>> 
>>> Just to be clear, you are asking only whether there is a consensus on 
>>> recommending to the Council that our final report go out for public comment 
>>> prior to the Council's consideration.  Is that correct?
>>> 
>>> I did go over the plan with the group and asked if there were any comments 
>>> or anyone that disagreed with the approach.  No one objected or disagreed 
>>> and frankly putting something out for public comment seemed so benign that 
>>> I did not issue a formal consensus call on that approach and took the lack 
>>> of disagreement as approval of the process.  The people that were there 
>>> included myself (Registries), J Scott (IPC), Marilyn Cade (BC), Alan 
>>> Greenberg (ALAC), Wolf K. (ISPs), Tim Ruiz (Registrars).  You were also 
>>> present and did not seemingly object at the time, so yes I believed there 
>>> was consensus.  However, if you would like, I can re-ask the question when 
>>> I do a consensus call on the substance.
>>> 
>>> Avri - are you for or against recommending to the Council that this goes 
>>> out for public comment?  If you can also please provide your rationale so 
>>> that I, as chair, can understand and reflect as necessary.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman 
>>> Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the 
>>> use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or 
>>> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you have 
>>> received this e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination, 
>>> distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you 
>>> have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and 
>>> delete the original message.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of Avri Doria
>>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 10:22 AM
>>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in 
>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Jeff,
>>> 
>>> I just do not remember a consensus call where everyone agreed.  A call with 
>>> few members (how many PPSc members here on the call?) does not count as a 
>>> consensus in my understanding of the PPSC requirements for full and active  
>>> consensus.  So I am trying to understand whether proper procedure was 
>>> followed or whether you have decided to just declare consensus.  If you are 
>>> declaring it, then I am challenging you to prove it.  I believe it is 
>>> critical that a committee responsible for defining policy and procedures 
>>> follow its own policies and procedures meticulously .
>>> 
>>> a.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 13 Dec 2010, at 10:10, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Yes.  We discussed this on the call on December 1st, reiterated it at the 
>>>> Sunday meeting on December 5th, and then at the Council on the 8th and 
>>>> everyone seemed in agreement.  If you would like to note your objection 
>>>> for this going out to public comment, I would be happy to note that for 
>>>> the Council.  If you do, however, I would like to know your rationale, so 
>>>> I may let the Council know at the appropriate time.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks. 
>>>> 
>>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman 
>>>> Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the 
>>>> use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or 
>>>> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you have 
>>>> received this e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination, 
>>>> distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you 
>>>> have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately 
>>>> and delete the original message.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx] On 
>>>> Behalf Of Avri Doria
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:27 AM
>>>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in 
>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Do we have consensus on that?
>>>> 
>>>> a.
>>>> 
>>>> On 13 Dec 2010, at 09:20, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Avri,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Remember, we (the ppsc) are not sending this out for public comment, but 
>>>>> we are recommending that the gnso send this out for public comment as 
>>>>> there have been some changes to the report since it was last out for 
>>>>> public comment (which was at the initial report stage). 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman, Esq.
>>>>> Vice President, Law & Policy
>>>>> NeuStar, Inc.
>>>>> Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@xxxxxxx]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 09:16 AM
>>>>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx <gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in 
>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The council needs to approve sending things out for public comment?
>>>>> Since when?
>>>>> 
>>>>> a.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 13 Dec 2010, at 08:46, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marika/Margie - Can you all pull together the final version 
>>>>>> incorporating all of this language and then I will call for a formal 
>>>>>> consensus call among the PPSC for approval.  We will then draft a motion 
>>>>>> to propose to the GNSO Council sending this out for public comment as we 
>>>>>> discussed.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks everyone.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman 
>>>>>> Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for 
>>>>>> the use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential 
>>>>>> and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you 
>>>>>> have received this e-mail message in error and any review, 
>>>>>> dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly 
>>>>>> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please 
>>>>>> notify us immediately and delete the original message.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx] On 
>>>>>> Behalf Of Avri Doria
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:31 PM
>>>>>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in 
>>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> sure.
>>>>>> a.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 9 Dec 2010, at 18:32, J. Scott Evans wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am fine with this.  Others?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> J. Scott
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> j. scott evans - senior legal director, global brand and trademarks - 
>>>>>>> Yahoo! Inc. - 408.349.1385 - jscottevans@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Tim Ruiz <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: jscottevans@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Cc: marika.konings@xxxxxxxxx; gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2010 10:53:16 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in 
>>>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> J. Scott,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As I said, the second revised section looks fine to me, but I would like
>>>>>>> to suggest rewording the first on to something like the following:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Based upon the WG's needs, the Chair may direct that WG participants do
>>>>>>> not have to have their name explicitly associated with any Full
>>>>>>> Consensus or Consensus view/position. However, in all other cases and
>>>>>>> in those cases where a group member represents the minority viewpoint,
>>>>>>> their name must be explicitly linked, especially in those cases where
>>>>>>> polls where taken."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I believe it doesn't change the intent but makes it more explicit.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>> Subject: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in
>>>>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>>>>> From: "J. Scott Evans" 
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, December 08, 2010 3:59 pm
>>>>>>>> To: PPSC 
>>>>>>>> Cc: Marika Konings 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dear All:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I apologize for the delay in getting this back to you.  I have 
>>>>>>>> attached a Word document containing my suggested revisions to the 2 
>>>>>>>> sections we discussed in our call on December 1, 2010.  Please let me 
>>>>>>>> have your feedback.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> J. Scott
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> j. scott evans - senior legal director, global brand and trademarks - 
>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Inc. - 408.349.1385 - jscottevans@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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