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Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in Working Group Guidelines

  • To: Julie Hedlund <julie.hedlund@xxxxxxxxx>, "stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx" <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in Working Group Guidelines
  • From: Marika Konings <marika.konings@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 17:18:53 -0800

As I noted in a previous email, this latest version of the GNSO WG guidelines 
incorporates the changes made by the WG WT based on the public comments 
received, but also additional changes based on input received from the PPSC. In 
my personal opinion, that would warrant an additional round of public comment. 
In addition, I would hope that all stakeholder groups and constituencies (as 
well as GNSO councillors) take the opportunity to review the document and 
identify any issues they might see so that these can be addressed before the 
GNSO Council actually votes on the document.

Best regards,

Marika

----- Original Message -----
From: Julie Hedlund
To: Stephane Van Gelder <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Marika Konings; avri@xxxxxxx <avri@xxxxxxx>; gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx 
<gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue Dec 14 15:50:20 2010
Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in Working 
Group Guidelines

Stéphane,

I will defer to Marika with respect to your question.  She has been
supporting the Work Team and is more familiar with its work than I am.  I
was responding with a reference as to how the work has proceeded in the OSC,
but the parallels may not be the same.

Thanks,
Julie


On 12/14/10 6:01 PM, "Stephane Van Gelder" <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Thanks Marika and Julie for the answers. I understand Avri's point to be that
> comment periods are perhaps not necessary at every step of the way. Is that
> something you agree with? For example, does this latest version of the WG
> guidelines need to be put out for public comment?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Stéphane Van Gelder
> Directeur général / General manager
>
> INDOM.com Noms de domaine / Domain names
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> Le 14 déc. 2010 à 17:36, Julie Hedlund <julie.hedlund@xxxxxxxxx> a écrit :
>
>>
>> Hi Avri,
>>
>> It's my recollection that we have sent each change to the GNSO Operating
>> Procedures (the GCOT recommendations) out for Public Comment following a
>> motion to do so by the Council, prior to acceptance by the Council.  There
>> have been two sets of changes.  The original major change and the changes
>> that included absences, proxies, and the SOI/DOI procedures.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> On 12/14/10 11:04 AM, "Marika Konings" <marika.konings@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'll check with my colleagues as I don't know the answer, but just to note
>>> that in addition to the changes made to the GNSO WG Guidelines in response
>>> to
>>> the public comments received, further changes were made following the input
>>> of
>>> the PPSC which has resulted in the latest version which is now out for a
>>> consensus call.
>>>
>>> With best regards,
>>>
>>> Marika
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx <owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx <gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tue Dec 14 07:52:52 2010
>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in
>>> Working
>>> Group Guidelines
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Marika,
>>>
>>> A question, have the GCOT recommendations been so treated after each one of
>>> the changes was made?  I would think that those changes were indeed
>>> substantive, and I just do not remember if that practice was followed after
>>> each round trip.  Has this been the case after every comment resolution
>>> phase?
>>> I just do not remember.
>>>
>>> Just as a reminder, it was not my intention to say that public comments were
>>> never needed, but that a new public comment was not necessarily needed after
>>> comment resolution.
>>>
>>> a.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14 Dec 2010, at 10:45, Marika Konings wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've checked with my colleagues and this is the process that has been
>>>> followed for the different OSC work products:
>>>>
>>>> The recommendations were sent to the GNSO Council from the OSC along with a
>>>> draft motion whereby
>>>> the Council would ask that they be put out for public comment for at least
>>>> 30
>>>> days.  The Council voted on the motion, the recommendations were posted
>>>> for comment, and at the end of the comment period the Council would then
>>>> vote
>>>> to approve the recommendations with another motion.
>>>>
>>>> With best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Marika
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx <owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx>
>>>> Cc: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx <gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tue Dec 14 02:17:37 2010
>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in
>>>> Working
>>>> Group Guidelines
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that what the Council needs is the PPSC's WG guidelines. We
>>>> also need to know if the proposed text has the PPSC's consensus or not.
>>>>
>>>> Beyond that, it is up to the Council to determine if the text should be put
>>>> out for public comment or not. I would recommend that it be put out, but
>>>> would also appreciate staff's guidance on this.
>>>>
>>>> However, before we look at whether this goes out for public comment or not,
>>>> the Council will first have to agree to the PPSC's recommendations for WG
>>>> guidelines. If recent events on some of the OSC's proposals are anything to
>>>> go by, the Council may send the text back to you guys to tweak parts of it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Stéphane
>>>>
>>>> Le 13 déc. 2010 à 19:15, Avri Doria a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Works for me.  Proper accountable behavior is all I am asking for.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, are we confident we know who the functioning members of the PPSC are?
>>>>> for the NCSg part, we are currently reviewing it, I am for example, the
>>>>> 2nd
>>>>> alternate, but have been the one who has been participating.  The NCSG is
>>>>> currently reviewing this and will let the powers that be know if we make
>>>>> any
>>>>> changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> a.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13 Dec 2010, at 12:10, J. Scott Evans wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Jeff and Avri:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May I make a suggestion?  I propose that we put the revised Guidelines
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> to the full PPSC with a call for consensus.  We can also request a call
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> consensus on how to handle the issue of further public comments.  It
>>>>>> seems
>>>>>> to me that this would be far more efficient than a continued email debate
>>>>>> from to immutable forces.  ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J. Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> j. scott evans - senior legal director, global brand and trademarks -
>>>>>> Yahoo! Inc. - 408.349.1385 - jscottevans@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Cc:
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 8:12:47 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in
>>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Jeff,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With all due respect, I do not beleive I was at the Dec 5 meeting as I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> attending the OSC meeting at the time.  And I think only 4 non-staff
>>>>>> attended the Dec 1 call, including the two chairs.  I also ask , of those
>>>>>> you listed as attending the meeting on Dec 5 and participating in the
>>>>>> decision, how many were the actual PPSC representatives.  Again, I think
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> need to be strict about our methodology in decision making, and it is the
>>>>>> members of the PPSC who are the ones who should be making the decisions
>>>>>> via
>>>>>> the consensus process:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> from https://st.icann.org/icann-ppsc/index.cgi?ppsc_charter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Decision Making for the PPSC
>>>>>>>  € Unless otherwise determined by the PPSC members, committee decisions
>>>>>>> will be made using a ³full consensus of the members² process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - I had spoken previously about there really being no need for this to go
>>>>>> to another community comment period.  I know public comment periods like
>>>>>> mother's milk for ICANN, but the changes had not been substantive and
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> have spoken about the comment overload the community is going through.
>>>>>> Also, we are talking about a set of guidelines not a PDP, so I thought
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> bringing them to a vote in the council, after doing a proper Stakeholder
>>>>>> group review of the changes might have been enough.  If the Council
>>>>>> believes it needs to go to public comment before it can vote on them,
>>>>>> fine,
>>>>>> let them so decide.  It is a matter of division of labor, the PPSC
>>>>>> approves
>>>>>> the work of the WGWT when it is ready to do so and think it has gone
>>>>>> through the processes it needs and only then sends it to the council.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> council in its independent role from the PPSC decides what to do next.  I
>>>>>> believe I argued this on Dec 1, but was overruled by the chairs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - If we were to have PPSC consensus that a public comment is required,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> it should be done by the PPSC itself since this is the group (or its
>>>>>> designated sub-team) that would need to respond to any further comments.
>>>>>> We cannot have a comment period that ignores the responses, and the
>>>>>> council
>>>>>> in its managerial role can only send the document back to the PPSC to
>>>>>> resolve any issues; it does not have the authority to act on them itself
>>>>>> other than to vote against the proposed guidelines for faulty process. So
>>>>>> why add another several Council meeting cycles to the process by
>>>>>> requiring
>>>>>> the council to first vote on a public comment period (and maybe push the
>>>>>> vote off by another council meeting cycle as is the practice with nearly
>>>>>> every vote these days), and then vote on sending the comment back to the
>>>>>> PPSC.  Asking the council to decide if another review period is necessary
>>>>>> could add as much as 12 weeks to the process.  If we in the PPSC think it
>>>>>> needs another comment period, t!
>>> h!
>>>> e!
>>>>> n !
>>>>>> we should be the ones to just request it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So yes, "just to be clear" I am against recommending to the council that
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> send this out for public comment.  To repeat:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - i am not convinced it is necessary
>>>>>> - i think it add up to 3 months to the process in the asking in addition
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the month of review
>>>>>> - if it is necessary then we should be the ones to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Additionally I do not believe we have taken a proper decision on this
>>>>>> issue
>>>>>> at this point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 13 Dec 2010, at 10:34, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just to be clear, you are asking only whether there is a consensus on
>>>>>>> recommending to the Council that our final report go out for public
>>>>>>> comment prior to the Council's consideration.  Is that correct?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did go over the plan with the group and asked if there were any
>>>>>>> comments
>>>>>>> or anyone that disagreed with the approach.  No one objected or
>>>>>>> disagreed
>>>>>>> and frankly putting something out for public comment seemed so benign
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I did not issue a formal consensus call on that approach and took the
>>>>>>> lack
>>>>>>> of disagreement as approval of the process.  The people that were there
>>>>>>> included myself (Registries), J Scott (IPC), Marilyn Cade (BC), Alan
>>>>>>> Greenberg (ALAC), Wolf K. (ISPs), Tim Ruiz (Registrars).  You were also
>>>>>>> present and did not seemingly object at the time, so yes I believed
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> was consensus.  However, if you would like, I can re-ask the question
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> I do a consensus call on the substance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Avri - are you for or against recommending to the Council that this goes
>>>>>>> out for public comment?  If you can also please provide your rationale
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> that I, as chair, can understand and reflect as necessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman
>>>>>>> Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or
>>>>>>> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you have
>>>>>>> received this e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination,
>>>>>>> distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you
>>>>>>> have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately
>>>>>>> and delete the original message.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx] On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Avri Doria
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 10:22 AM
>>>>>>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in
>>>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Jeff,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just do not remember a consensus call where everyone agreed.  A call
>>>>>>> with few members (how many PPSc members here on the call?) does not
>>>>>>> count
>>>>>>> as a consensus in my understanding of the PPSC requirements for full and
>>>>>>> active  consensus.  So I am trying to understand whether proper
>>>>>>> procedure
>>>>>>> was followed or whether you have decided to just declare consensus.  If
>>>>>>> you are declaring it, then I am challenging you to prove it.  I believe
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> is critical that a committee responsible for defining policy and
>>>>>>> procedures follow its own policies and procedures meticulously .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 13 Dec 2010, at 10:10, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes.  We discussed this on the call on December 1st, reiterated it at
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Sunday meeting on December 5th, and then at the Council on the 8th and
>>>>>>>> everyone seemed in agreement.  If you would like to note your objection
>>>>>>>> for this going out to public comment, I would be happy to note that for
>>>>>>>> the Council.  If you do, however, I would like to know your rationale,
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> I may let the Council know at the appropriate time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman
>>>>>>>> Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or
>>>>>>>> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you have
>>>>>>>> received this e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination,
>>>>>>>> distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you
>>>>>>>> have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately
>>>>>>>> and delete the original message.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Avri Doria
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:27 AM
>>>>>>>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in
>>>>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do we have consensus on that?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 13 Dec 2010, at 09:20, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Avri,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Remember, we (the ppsc) are not sending this out for public comment,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> we are recommending that the gnso send this out for public comment as
>>>>>>>>> there have been some changes to the report since it was last out for
>>>>>>>>> public comment (which was at the initial report stage).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman, Esq.
>>>>>>>>> Vice President, Law & Policy
>>>>>>>>> NeuStar, Inc.
>>>>>>>>> Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@xxxxxxx]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 09:16 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx <gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in
>>>>>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The council needs to approve sending things out for public comment?
>>>>>>>>> Since when?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13 Dec 2010, at 08:46, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Marika/Margie - Can you all pull together the final version
>>>>>>>>>> incorporating all of this language and then I will call for a formal
>>>>>>>>>> consensus call among the PPSC for approval.  We will then draft a
>>>>>>>>>> motion to propose to the GNSO Council sending this out for public
>>>>>>>>>> comment as we discussed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman
>>>>>>>>>> Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for
>>>>>>>>>> the use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential
>>>>>>>>>> and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient
>>>>>>>>>> you have received this e-mail message in error and any review,
>>>>>>>>>> dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly
>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
>>>>>>>>>> notify us immediately and delete the original message.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx] On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Avri Doria
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:31 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in
>>>>>>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> sure.
>>>>>>>>>> a.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Dec 2010, at 18:32, J. Scott Evans wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am fine with this.  Others?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> J. Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> j. scott evans - senior legal director, global brand and trademarks
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Inc. - 408.349.1385 - jscottevans@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Tim Ruiz <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: jscottevans@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: marika.konings@xxxxxxxxx; gnso-ppsc@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2010 10:53:16 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> J. Scott,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, the second revised section looks fine to me, but I would
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> to suggest rewording the first on to something like the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Based upon the WG's needs, the Chair may direct that WG
>>>>>>>>>>> participants
>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>> not have to have their name explicitly associated with any Full
>>>>>>>>>>> Consensus or Consensus view/position. However, in all other cases
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> in those cases where a group member represents the minority
>>>>>>>>>>> viewpoint,
>>>>>>>>>>> their name must be explicitly linked, especially in those cases
>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>> polls where taken."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe it doesn't change the intent but makes it more explicit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [gnso-ppsc] Revised Language for 2 outstanding issues in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Working Group Guidelines
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "J. Scott Evans"
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, December 08, 2010 3:59 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: PPSC
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Marika Konings
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear All:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I apologize for the delay in getting this back to you.  I have
>>>>>>>>>>>> attached a Word document containing my suggested revisions to the 2
>>>>>>>>>>>> sections we discussed in our call on December 1, 2010.  Please let
>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>> have your feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> J. Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> j. scott evans - senior legal director, global brand and trademarks
>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Inc. - 408.349.1385 - jscottevans@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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