[gnso-review-dt] Attendance list and mp3 GNSO Review WP 18 November 2015 at 15:00 UTC

[Nathalie Peregrine <nathalie.peregrine@xxxxxxxxx>]

Dear all,

Please find attendance and mp3 mp3 below for the GNSO Review WP call held on 
Wednesday, 18 November 2015 at 15:00 UTC.
MP3: 
http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-review-18nov15-en.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXzI03Zqpsv3-2BGV2ylKiT9V1wvzimnzMtAiTRvSO-2Behbybgs1bfEHg-3D-3D_QuA5zZR9ZZ7J1F2FeF-2FOsgm1hgIDcBrAX2P7Ezxmql7ckJc4ios1-2BxObAoz2rzLSI3c4QB1NGo7bw7XrBjpRCbz74w4vzk48UxZMFoBBQBQaQ0ePdiOjdJ30sQNHkokOf-2F2p-2FBvMgKvMhzp-2B4u8fP-2BRrSytHe2KCf2HpQmtSbpezMgNTUG57PiORAPesOotpHA-2BC4pSmXJRsVmpbNaLqzoAuTrQ4elSwUEcO7skZeAGr6pL1yBS6ZJoQp8qU4R8Hv6xoT39Uft9mrfrz5iZw5yvk8x09TivOY6VeomkpaOXHd4Lxkh12IF7okAtJ2yboXGBtQWDYkz5t-2Bn3Z-2FdmHufkDRda7PM-2F0RjftQGRuqvCkPSVdwMWhM7rpbVFUkDZrHYzlS5Z-2FMd8JWJLTX-2Bah6PzOq00e1Di1FyP8HUGzCoBAHvJ17S7wRJc0esIx-2B03vEGUUX54N1EmR3gnhP75VJJ0zaCsl0ybMOYHIGe37-2BtN-2FTj253dMedVPK1q0kZZ8t>
Attendance:
Avri Doria
Chuck Gomes
Jen Wolfe
Klaus Stoll
Rudi Vansnick
Amr Elsadr
Osvaldo Novoa

Apologies: none

Staff:
Larisa Gurnick,
Charla Shambley
Marika Konings
Mary Wong
Glen de St Gery
Nathalie Peregrine

Thanks!
Nathalie



AC Chat:

Nathalie  Peregrine:Dear all, Welcome to the GNSO Review Working Party on the 
18 November 2015
  Osvaldo Novoa:Hello, am I too early?
  Nathalie  Peregrine:never to early Osvaldo :)
  Nathalie  Peregrine:*too
  Osvaldo Novoa:Thank you
  Osvaldo Novoa:I have some problem with my microphone, if I cannot get it to 
work I will dial in.
  Chuck Gomes:Hi all.
  Nathalie  Peregrine:@ Osvaldo, have you clicked onthe telephone icon at the 
topof the AC room? If you follow instructions there, the icon should become 
amic, and this willshow your mic is activated
  Nathalie  Peregrine:alternatively, we can dial out to you
  Osvaldo Novoa:@Nathalie, I think the problem is in the microphone cable, I am 
changing it
  Rudi Vansnick:still a small group here
  Marika Konings:It would first require identification of cost barriers...
  Marika Konings:as participation happens at different levels (e.g. 
participation in a conference call requires only time - is that a cost barrier?)
  Rudi Vansnick:+1 Marika
  Amr Elsadr:@Marika: Good point.
  Larisa Gurnick:It may be useful for the Working Party to rephrase this 
recommendation to make it more precise and useful, if you agree with the spirit 
of the recommendation.
  Amr Elsadr:@Larissa: My instinct is that; to make this rec useful, quite a 
bit of work needs to go into it. A lot of questions that need to be raised and 
addressed.
  Klaus Stoll:I agree with Amr, as it is the staement is in a way meaningless
  Marika Konings:for the GNSO, most of the work is actually done in between 
physical meetings, something that many do not seem to realise as the focus is 
often on travel funding as a means to participate. Agree with Rudi that 
enhancing that understanding may help clarify that participation in F2F 
meetings is not necessarily the end goal.
  Amr Elsadr:For one thing, "cost barrier" needs to be defined. I don't recall 
a scope to what is considered cost barriers in the report.
  Rudi Vansnick:"cost" not equal finances
  Amr Elsadr:@Rudi: Emotional costs paid as a result of participation in ICANN? 
;-)
  Rudi Vansnick:;) @ Amr
  Mary Wong:@Chuck, perhaps the WP can take a look at Westlake's analysis that 
led to this (and the other related recommendations) in the Final Report , to 
see if there is any explanation for this.
  Marika Konings:The PDP Manual does have some guidance on translation, 
especially in relation to executive summaries
  Rudi Vansnick:i mean translation
  Mary Wong:e.g. all executive summaries of WG reports are translated on 
publication.
  Mary Wong:This Rec 7 is grouped by Westlake with Rec 6 - which is that the 
GNSO record diversity statistics.
  Mary Wong:The accompanying text seems to indicate that these two recs came 
out of Westlake's analysis that "Working Groups are dominated by English 
speakers from NA/EU."
  Rudi Vansnick:@Amr : +1
  Rudi Vansnick:agree with Chuck
  Rudi Vansnick:let's have an ad-hoc group working out some proposals for 
implementation
  Amr Elsadr:@Mary: Yes... this rec is under Theme 1: Participation and 
Representation, but still didn't strike me to be WG centric like other 
recommendations under the same theme.
  Marika Konings:Good point Klaus
  Mary Wong:There were comments WEstlake noted about the need for skilled WG 
chairs.
  Klaus Stoll:this needs to be reworded
  Mary Wong:Note that the rec specifies "WG leadership" as "part of the overall 
training" provided by ICANN.
  Avri Doria:did you mena more harm than good?  that is what i think.
  Mary Wong:Please note that Westlake had this to say about pro facilitators: 
"The Westlake Review Team considers that the use of a professional 
facilitator/moderator, who is well briefed on the subject matter of the WG, is 
helpful in certain situations (for example, when policy issues are complex, 
where members of the WG are generally inexperienced and/or where WG members 
have interests that conflict)."
  Mary Wong:This was based on community responses and the surveys.
  Avri Doria:sometimes when a group breaks down, it might be useful to bring in 
someone to help a group find its balance.
  Rudi Vansnick:@Avri : couldn't that be done by staff ?
  Mary Wong:That is why this recommendation applies only "in certain 
situations".
  Avri Doria:but as a general rule, group facilitation by those who do not know 
the subject matter often wasted a lot of time and patience.
  Amr Elsadr:This was also in the Westlake report: The Westlake Review Team 
considers that an experienced independentchair is the preferred option because, 
as a full member of the WG, they will be seento be working within the WG and 
have incentives to complete the process in a timelymanner. An independent paid 
facilitator may have no such incentive – indeed theymay benefit personally from 
prolonging the process.
  Klaus Stoll:what are"certain situations"
  Avri Doria:Rudi, sometimes, it might be.  sometime you need a specialist in 
group dynamic who has no ties.
  Klaus Stoll:I agree with that
  Marika Konings:that's a very good point too Chuck - I think when reading this 
people assume it is someone external but it doesn't need to be
  Mary Wong:@Amr, that may be why the final rec is phrased the way it is.
  Rudi Vansnick:going back to rec 9 : perhaps specific training at this level 
too
  Amr Elsadr:I'm fine with Orange.
  Rudi Vansnick:Orange fine for me too
  Osvaldo Novoa:orange is fine for me too
  Amr Elsadr:Mix of orange/yellow then. :)
  Charla Shambley:Thanks, Amr.  I'll work on that :)
  Klaus Stoll:That's another orange
  Larisa Gurnick:Staff is looking into solutions, there is definitely work 
going on
  Mary Wong:Question whether the WP wants to endorse a specific tool, as 
mentioned in this recommendation?
  Klaus Stoll:No endorsement of a specific tool, I think this is about the 
general idea
  Larisa Gurnick:@Mary - Westlake was using Loomio as an example of a tool that 
could be useful.
  Chuck Gomes:I don't think it is our place to endorse a specific tool or tools 
but we could recommend tools to be evaluated just like Westlake did.
  Rudi Vansnick:yellow status
  Chuck Gomes:@ Rudi:  What needs to be modified?
  Amr Elsadr:@Jen: Yes. Thanks.
  Avri Doria:and yet, we need to find a way to introduce new methods and 
systems.  we could all do our work by sending sheaves of paper back and forth 
for traditonal markup.
  Avri Doria:but we should pick new systems based on needs and not pick new 
tools based on their coolness.
  Rudi Vansnick:agree with Avri
  Rudi Vansnick:define objectives and then look which solution will enable 
improvement
  Mary Wong:The three are: RDS to replace WHOIS; the potential one on New gTLDs 
Subsequent Procedures; and another potential one on rights protection 
mechanisms. It's not a given that all will be done in  the way Westlake 
describes, but the topic is under active discussion.
  Avri Doria:it is really about apporpriate serialization not chunking.
  Rudi Vansnick:so the wording needs adoption
  Amr Elsadr:@Chuck: yes to the next gen RDS PDP. It's basically set up in 
chunks (although called phases) with the GNSO council having a role along each 
"chunk".
  Mary Wong:Besides chunking, there are other ideas such as parallel efforts, 
review of stages, etc.
  Amr Elsadr:@Chuck: +1 again. I think the wording of the recommendation is 
fine the way it is. I believe it provides the GNSO the flexibility it needs.
  Osvaldo Novoa:ok
  Mary Wong:It sounds like what we are talking about is highlighting the need 
for each PDP to be conducted in a flexible way, and for different methods of 
accomplishing this to be explored.
  Marika Konings:This was the announcement I was referring 
to:https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2015-11-17-en
  Amr Elsadr:That seems interesting Marika. Will have to check it out.
  Amr Elsadr:Thnx.
  Chuck Gomes:I would break this into two parts and code them differently.
  Chuck Gomes:21.a & 21.b
  Rudi Vansnick:good idea @Chuck
  Amr Elsadr:@Larissa: +1. Yes..., we need to go back to the report first 
before contacting Westlake.
  Chuck Gomes:Let's defer 21
  Klaus Stoll:I don't understand what it means
  Avri Doria:i support going back to the report for clarification of what was 
said.  I do not recommend going back to Westlake.
  Rudi Vansnick:i think it comes from the ATRT2
  Avri Doria:i do not mean ti imply they mention the nomcom.  i meant that much 
of what we do may already constitute a framework, and it just needs to be 
discussed in the form of a framework.
  Rudi Vansnick:quick reading of report doesn't make it clearer
  Amr Elsadr:didn't we go through this one in Dublin?
  Marika Konings:Chuck is correct
  Amr Elsadr:Isn't there already language in the OP that the council needs to 
be sure that reasonalbe efforts are made to recruit geographically diverse WG 
members?
  Amr Elsadr:@jen: Right. :)
  Marika Konings:The WG Manual does foresee that: 'The Chair should make it 
clear that participation on sub-teams is open to all and he/she should 
encourage representational balance to the degree possible. However, it should 
be understood that there will not always be volunteers from every interest 
group and that it is often acceptable to have a small sub-team that is not 
totally representational perform an initial role that will later be reviewed by 
a broader more representational group. In those cases where initially there is 
insufficient balance, the Chair should make a special outreach effort to those 
groups not represented. In all cases where the Chair believes that one set of 
interests or expertise is missing from a group, special efforts must be made to 
bring that interest or expertise into the group via invitation or other method 
and the situation must be documented in the final report, including a 
discussion of the efforts made to redress the balance. Additionally, the Chair 
should ensure that particular outreach eff
  Amr Elsadr:@Marika: Isn't the role of the chair in the WG limited to sub-team 
membership? Not WG membership, right?
  Marika Konings:@Amr, no, the chair is also responsible to assess at the start 
of every meeting as well as in general that there is sufficiently broad 
participation and engagement in the WG.
  Klaus Stoll:I recomment that we do not approve this recommendation
  Amr Elsadr:@Marika: OK, thanks. Got it.
  Marika Konings:@Chuck - and that wasn't as a result of lack of reminders to 
participate ;-)
  Amr Elsadr:@Chuck: Thanks. You said it better than I did. :)
  Klaus Stoll:red
  Rudi Vansnick:red
  Chuck Gomes:I think I am leaning more toward yellow.
  Osvaldo Novoa:I would prefer yellow
  Amr Elsadr:Sounds good Jen. Thnx.
  Amr Elsadr:Some might argue that the role of the board here is important from 
a "public interest" perspective. :)
  Chuck Gomes:It is important for the Board to have a role here but they must 
look at the whole process.
  Amr Elsadr:@Chuck: Yes..., fully agree.
  Amr Elsadr:Within the next month sounds good. Get it done before the holidays.
  Avri Doria:sounds good
  Avri Doria:look forward to that survey
  Amr Elsadr:@Larissa: +1
  Avri Doria:agree
  Chuck Gomes:Thanks to all.  Very good call.
  Rudi Vansnick:thanks Jen, very good session
  Amr Elsadr:Thanks all. Bye.
  Avri Doria:thanks, bye
  Rudi Vansnick:bye
  Osvaldo Novoa:Thank you and by to all