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Re: [gnso-thickwhoispdp-wg] missing recommendation in 7.1
- To: Tim Ruiz <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: Re: [gnso-thickwhoispdp-wg] missing recommendation in 7.1
- From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 14:58:18 +0200
Fully agreed. Working Group meetings at such times are a pain and
probably part of the reason participation of the community is more
limited than it could be.
Volker
(Note to ICANN: I like programs that begin at 10 a.m.)
As do I, maybe even 9am. In any event, while I will likely be in Buenos Aires I
would not be able to make any meeting that starts prior to 9am, and requiring
WGs to meet at 7:30am is ridiculous.
Tim
On Sep 19, 2013, at 12:37 PM, "Don Blumenthal" <dblumenthal@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Interesting idea. I wrote my note saying that a legal review would be more
useful than a policy one before I saw it. Really.
I'm at a conference and today's sessions are about to start (Note to ICANN: I
like programs that begin at 10 a.m.). I have some questions about the idea of
an independent review that I need to ponder during breaks and boring
presentations.
Don
From: Volker Greimann
<vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Date: Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:14 AM
To: Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx<mailto:avri@xxxxxxx>>
Cc: Thick Thin PDP
<gnso-thickwhoispdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:gnso-thickwhoispdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: [gnso-thickwhoispdp-wg] missing recommendation in 7.1
Hi all,
I still find Avri's proposed language too broad, so I tried my hand at a quick
rewrite. Probably still needs a little fiddling, but more in the direction what
I could support, although putting this into 7.1 is a bit iffy to me.
The WG discussed many of the issues involved in moving from having a
registration currently governed under the privacy rules by one jurisdiction in
a thin whois to another jurisdiction, the jurisdiction of the Registry in a
thick whois. The WG did not feel it was competent to reach a final conclusion
on these issues involving international privacy laws. The Working group
therefore makes the following recommendation:
. We recommend that the ICANN Board request an independent legal review to be
undertaken on the privacy implications of a transfer of registrant data between
jurisdictions.
Reasons: If we could not find ourselves competent to decide a small matter like
the transfer of private data, how can we expect another PDP to tackle an even
broader issue of privacy issues surrounding WHOIS in general? For the purposes
of this WG, the determination that we were unable to reach a final conclusion
on could and should be resolved by independent counsel.
While a new PDP on WHOIS and privacy issues is certainly something worth
considering and something I would welcome, I do not feel that this WG needs to
make that recommendation as it would be much broader than the smaller issue we
were tasked to tackle.
Volker
Hi,
For me this needs to be a Recommendation (7.1, big R), not an extra
consideration. This issue was within the purview of the group and the group
bailed on it for lack of capability. Fine, then lets step and recommend that
those that have the capability do so. In this age of world attention on
privacy issues, I can't beleive we are still dancing around the point.
I am currently working on getting the NCSG to endorse this. As the alternate
chair of the NCSG Policy committee I beleive this is something that will be
supported by the NCSG. I will personally submit a minority position and work
to get the NCSG to endorse it, if this recommendation is not included in 7.1.
For myself at this point, I will reject the entire report without this, as the
report is incomplete without this as a primary Recommendation. To my mind NCSG
would be shirking it responsibilities if we let this report go out without such
a recommendation.
Incidentally, my impression from the list discussion was that there was
support, but that wording needed changing. It was changed.
I understand that there are those who may be playing divide and conquer games
behind the scenes, claiming that my position will hurt NCSG's reputation. I
have bcc'e d the NCSG on this note so that they themselves can determine if it
is reputation damaging. There are others who are are cynically claiming that I
am going against the bottom-up model by insisting on privacy considerations. I
reject those claims.
avri
On 19 Sep 2013, at 10:25, Mike O'Connor wrote:
hi all,
i may have been the culprit here. Avri, my interpretation of the desultory
conversation on the list was that there *wasn't* much support for the idea.
and then when you didn't show up on last week's call to pitch/push it, i forgot
to bring it up. my bad -- sorry about that.
let's try to have a vigorous conversation about this on the list, and drive to
a conclusion on the call next week.
Avri, you and i had a one-to-one email exchange about this and i suggested that
this recommendation might fit better, and be more widely accepted, if it was in
the privacy and data protection part of our report (Section 7.3). could you
give us an indication of whether acceptance of this version of the
recommendation is required? in more casual terms, is there any wiggle room
here? i think it would be helpful for the rest of the group to know the
framework for the conversation.
carry on folks,
mikey
On Sep 18, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx><mailto:avri@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi,
I was disappointed to not see the recommendation for the Issues report included
in 7.1. I thought we had discussed it on this list and thee had been little
opposition, though there was some. I cannot support this report with a strong
recommendation for follow on work on the Privacy issues. And, contrary to what
others may beleive, I do not see any such work currently ongoing in ICANN. I
think it i s unfortunate that we keep pushing off this work and are not willing
to face it directly. I beleive I have the support of others in the NCSG,
though the content of a minority statement has yet to be decided on.
While still somewhat inadequate, I am ready to argue for going along with
consensus on this document if the following is included in 7.1:
The WG discussed many of the issues involved in moving from having a
registration currently governed under the privacy rules by one jurisdiction in
a thick whois to another jurisdiction, the jurisdiction of the Registry in a
thick whois. The WG did not feel it was competent to fully discuss these
privacy issues and was not able to fully separate the privacy issues involved
in such a move from the general privacy issues that need to be resolved in
Whois. there was also concern with intersection with other related Privacy
issues that ICANN currently needs to work on. The Working group therefore
makes the following recommendation:
. We recommend that the ICANN Board request a GNSO issues report to cover the
issue of Privacy as related to WHOIS and other related GNSO policies.
Thanks
avri
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Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen
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--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
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Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
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