RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Revised Charter, including updated Definitions

[Margie Milam <Margie.Milam@xxxxxxxxx>]

Stéphane,

I don't know what changes are being suggested by Kristina and Mike.  In 
Kristina's email she mentioned being ok with one of Milton's suggestions made 
on the call, but I don't recall the specific language.

Best,
Margie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Stéphane Van Gelder
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:51 AM
To: icann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Revised Charter, including updated Definitions


Comments from others please. Let's try and get this resolved asap. We're past 
our deadline already.

Margie, to help everybody, please resend to the list the proposed Obj 5 as 
worded by Mike and Kristina, and then the one as worded by Milton.

Thanks,

Stéphane

Le 19 févr. 2010 à 18:47, Mike Rodenbaugh a écrit :

> 
> I've proposed wording already, Kristina has proposed wording...  Maybe
> better to go back to basics on this issue?  How many people disagree that a
> PDP WG must analyze the potential effects of its policy recommendations
> while it is developing them?
> 
> If you disagree, why?
> 
> Frankly I don't see how anyone can reasonably disagree with that, and thus
> the concept needs to be embodied in an Objective, as Kristina and I have
> repeatedly been trying to ensure...
> 
> Mike Rodenbaugh
> RODENBAUGH LAW
> tel/fax:  +1 (415) 738-8087
> http://rodenbaugh.com 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stéphane Van Gelder [mailto:stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx] 
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:43 AM
> To: icann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Revised Charter, including updated Definitions
> 
> Just disagreeing doesn't really help. Please propose alternative wording so
> that we may try to reach consensus on something concrete.
> 
> Milton has proposed something. What is your proposal Mike?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Stéphane
> 
> Le 19 févr. 2010 à 18:11, Mike Rodenbaugh a écrit :
> 
>> 
>> Thanks, I was confused since it was still in redline.  I also cannot agree
>> with Milton's formulation because it does not explicitly include an
> analysis
>> of the potential effects of any change in policy that has been developed
> by
>> Staff or may be developed by the PDP WG.  That must be required in any
> PDP.
>> Presumably, Staff has much information and opinion to share about the
>> potential effects of the policy they have developed thus far.
>> 
>> Mike Rodenbaugh
>> RODENBAUGH LAW
>> tel/fax:  +1 (415) 738-8087
>> http://rodenbaugh.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of Margie Milam
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 8:54 AM
>> To: icann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Revised Charter, including updated
> Definitions
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Mike,
>> 
>> I sent a draft out yesterday following our call,  see:
>> http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-vi-feb10/msg00176.html,  although there
>> has been commentary on this version since then.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Margie
>> 
>> ________________________________________
>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx [owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Rodenbaugh [icann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:49 AM
>> To: 'Stéphane Van Gelder'; 'Rosette, Kristina'
>> Cc: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Revised Charter, including updated
> Definitions
>> 
>> I don't think I've even seen Milton's #5 yet since it came out of the last
>> call and we are waiting for a new draft, right?
>> 
>> Mike Rodenbaugh
>> RODENBAUGH LAW
>> tel/fax:  +1 (415) 738-8087
>> http://rodenbaugh.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of Stéphane Van Gelder
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 8:41 AM
>> To: Rosette, Kristina
>> Cc: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Revised Charter, including updated
> Definitions
>> 
>> 
>> Kristina,
>> 
>> In the interest of moving forwards and actually getting somewhere on this
>> charter, may I ask if rather than a blanket objection which prevents us
> from
>> finalizing the charter, you would be willing to compromise and propose a
>> change to some elements of the wording of objective 5 as proposed by
> Milton?
>> 
>> May I also ask if the rest of the DT supports the current objective 5 as
>> proposed by Milton? Because if that is the case, then we also have the
>> option of moving forwards while noting, in the charter, the IPC's
> objection
>> (and perhaps suggested rewording).
>> 
>> However, I would much rather go ahead with full consensus.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Stéphane
>> 
>> Le 19 févr. 2010 à 13:57, Rosette, Kristina a écrit :
>> 
>>> I do not support Milton's proposed objective 5.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Kristina Rosette
>>> Covington & Burling LLP
>>> 1201 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
>>> Washington, DC  20004-2401
>>> voice:  202-662-5173
>>> direct fax:  202-778-5173
>>> main fax:  202-662-6291
>>> e-mail:  krosette@xxxxxxx
>>> 
>>> This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is
>> confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the intended
> recipient,
>> please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message has
>> been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your
>> system.  Thank you for your cooperation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------------------------
>>> Sent from my Wireless Handheld
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx <owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx <Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Fri Feb 19 05:19:29 2010
>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Revised Charter, including updated
>> Definitions
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Avri, Berry,
>>> 
>>> Thank you both for your excellent suggestions. Let's go with "working
>> definitions". I suggest, as we are including definitions under a "working"
>> title, that we do not add an objective to come up with definitions but
>> instead, include a footnote to explain what Margie pointed out in her
> email,
>> i.e.: that with Staff support the WG can continue to refine these
>> definitions as it moves ahead with its work, but that refining them at DT
>> level would have taken too long.
>>> 
>>> Margie, please update the charter to reflect this.
>>> 
>>> Then, if there are no further updates, please send the charter as a final
>> document to the DT by 17 UTC today if possible.
>>> 
>>> DT members, I would ask that you then take the charter back to your
> groups
>> for approval. Please note that the deadline we set for this was next
> Friday.
>> I would like to set a deadline at 17 UTC on that day. Would that be
> workable
>> for everybody (please let me know if it's not)? At the Council meeting
>> yesterday, I informed the Council that we were working to provide them
> with
>> a final approved document by next Friday so leaving the cut-off line any
>> later will make it difficult for me to send that to Council on the Friday,
>> although I realize that time may not be the most convenient for people not
>> in the Europe zone. I apologize for that in advance.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Stéphane
>>> 
>>> Le 18 févr. 2010 à 21:23, Avri Doria a écrit :
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> In UN work, we often skirt this issue by calling them working
>> definitions.
>>>> 
>>>> Often working definitions are the best one ever gets.
>>>> 
>>>> I am comfortable calling them working definitions.
>>>> 
>>>> a.
>>>> 
>>>> On 18 Feb 2010, at 15:07, Berry Cobb wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> VI DT,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Since there is contention about the definitions included with the
>> charter, is there a chance that we can add language that these definitions
>> are work in progress?   Further, can we state this as an objective to the
> WG
>> that the refinement of these definitions occur?  Something like..
>>>>> 
>>>>> Objective 7:  To formally define Vertical Integration, Cross Ownership,
>> and other terms as necessary to establish VI policy for broad use by the
>> internet community.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If we were to establish this as an objective, it should probably be
>> labeled as Objective #1 or #2 as they lay the foundation from which the WG
>> would establish policy, if any.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As was stated on a prior call, I do not believe we would have the
>> Charter Objectives we have now without these definitions and I would hate
>> for the WG to start from scratch.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Berry A. Cobb
>>>>> Infinity Portals LLC
>>>>> 866.921.8891
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Margie Milam
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:27
>>>>> To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [gnso-vi-feb10] Revised Charter, including updated Definitions
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please find attached a revised charter, that includes suggestions made
>> to date by Brian Cute and Jeff Eckhaus, for your review.   I did not
> include
>> Kristina's recent email  suggestion, because I didn't recall what
> variations
>> were proposed by Milton with respect to "resale and wholesale markets."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please note that the revisions to the definitions  are intended to
> track
>> the language used in current registry agreements.  These agreements use
> the
>> terms "equivalent access" and "non-discriminatory access" to describe
> these
>> obligations, but do not actually define these terms.
>>>>> 
>>>>> At yesterday's call there was a request that Staff develop definitions
>> to be consistent with the analysis done through the implementation
> process.
>> Doing this will take longer than a few days, so we suggest that the
> working
>> group  finalize the charter based  on the current definitions.   Staff can
>> continue to further develop these  definitions if that is useful to the
>> working group, and update the charter when they are available.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Margie
>>>>> 
>>>>> ____________
>>>>> 
>>>>> Margie Milam
>>>>> Senior Policy Counselor
>>>>> ICANN
>>>>> ____________
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>