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Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] RE: "livability"
- To: Milton L Mueller <mueller@xxxxxxx>
- Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] RE: "livability"
- From: "Michele Neylon :: Blacknight" <michele@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:45:53 +0000
Milton +1
On 14 Jun 2010, at 15:21, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
> Ron:
> I Don't agree with your dismissal of the poll. Even though CAM did not do
> well in the poll it was a huge leap forward in terms of knowing who stands
> where, and why, and what kinds of issues need to be negotiated to overcome
> differences. Thanks to Mikey for putting it together. In particular, the
> "live with" option shows the areas and people where compromise is possible.
>
> Further, the fact that 1/3 of the WG members haven't chosen to vote is not a
> serious problem at all. email lists are known to harbor many lurkers who
> either i) have lost interest and are not paying attention; ii) don't have
> strong views or iii) have not made up their mind.
>
> Further, all the votes that I saw up there were active participants in the
> WG. Please do not suggest that
>
> It's a data point, let's use it. Dont' try to denigrate it because you don't
> like the results. Facts are facts. I say this as someone whose pet proposal
> did not do all that well, remember.
>
> --MM
> ________________________________________
> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx [owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Ron Andruff [randruff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 3:30 PM
> To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
> Cc: 'Alan Greenberg'
> Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] RE: "livability"
>
> It has been unfortunate that I have not been able to participate more fully
> on the list during this past as well as the coming week, but at the same time
> it is enlightening for me as I stepped from the lively debate only to catch
> up on the multitude of posts a few days later…
>
> As I read through the various thoughts and positions – and polls – it appears
> to me that several things are happening as we approach Brussels:
>
>
> 1. The active members of the WG are so focused on ensuring that whichever
> proposal they stand behind are promoted over all others that the important
> questions that are being asked on the list are quickly passed over on the
> list to move on to anything else that will win the day for one or another’s
> proposal rather than being given the serious thought and consideration they
> deserve;
> 2. Polls are being presented “to gain a clearer picture of where stand – or
> where there is room to compromise” but they are corrupted because only about
> 1/3 of the registered Working Group members are voting (the other 2/3
> continue to lurk!), while at the same time it appears there is some seepage
> coming in from outside the WG. My recommendation: Let’s stop using
> misleading/confusing polls and get back to dialogue. Clearly, what is wholly
> unscientific is destined to become the reference points when in fact they are
> no such thing. The current poll – as has been noted by several members – is
> NOT a referendum on where the WG is. Rather it is nothing more that what a
> few people think… It is not a WG position by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> The WG needs to get re-focused and be more realistic about what we can and
> what we can’t do in the short term (Brussels), the middle term (final AG
> cut-off date) and longer term (post 1st application round).
>
> Allan’s post in response to Siva(/Milton) was exactly right…
>
>> Then you need to define exactly who will negotiate what (and all parties to
>> a negotiation actually need to be talking to each other) and explain how
>> this will come to closure in sufficient time to publish the final Applicant
>> Guidebook. Many of us have wish-lists of what we would really like to see,
>> but the challenge is to finalize all of the details without delaying the
>> first round of applications.<
>
> We need to stop trying to read the tea leaves with polls and recognize that
> there is a lot of work ahead of us that needs to be done in an orderly
> manner. We need to stop the one-upmanship to try to position the proposal
> each of supports for “the best reception in Brussels” by working together
> this week to prepare a balanced report on where the WG stands at this early
> stage of our mandate.
>
> While there appears to a lot of pressure building, it is quite clear that it
> is all self-imposed to try force decisions. I, for one, will not be
> pressured into agreeing to something that I cannot support. I stand by my
> position that we need to continue researching and discussing ways forward –
> particularly in the realm of compliance – until we come to the end of our
> mandate and file our final report. No amount of self-created pressure to act
> before we have completed the requisite work will force a premature agreement.
>
> I believe that there are many other WG members who feel the same, whether
> they respond to our posts or choose to continue to lurk. I trust that our
> F2F in Brussels will bear some real fruit if we can continue to work
> collegially toward a common solution rather than continuing to talk about
> “polarized positions”.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Ronald N. Andruff
> RNA Partners, Inc.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Alan Greenberg
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 3:42 PM
> To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] RE: "livability"
>
> At 11/06/2010 08:18 PM, Sivasubramanian M wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Alan Greenberg
> <alan.greenberg@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:alan.greenberg@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
> At 11/06/2010 12:24 PM, Sivasubramanian M wrote:
>
> Dear Milton Mueller,
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Milton L Mueller
> <mueller@xxxxxxx<mailto:mueller@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
> Another point (I am obviously in the process of filling out the poll)
> The "free trade" proposal is not really a proposal but a philosophy or
> approach. It says that we should have a more open market and that cross
> ownership limits are not the proper tool for counteracting stated or
> perceived harms. I agree. In this respect, it is identical to the CAM
> proposal. However, it does not propose any specific method for preventing
> harms.
>
> As you have noticed and quoted in one of your later messages in this thread,
> I have indicated some broad measures. A lot of work needs to be done in
> identifying harms, categorizing harms and ranking them in terms of the
> intensity of harm to the Registrants / Internet. Then the penalties can be
> discussed and after that it would have to be explored if some or most of the
> harm can be contained by the Domain Industry by an internal code of good
> practices. I don't feel that it would be practical for ICANN to announce a
> table of harms and penalties and 'discipline' the domain industry like a
> school master. Sooner or later the Domain Industry has to work within and
> evolve practices that are fair to one another for a start, and then develop
> and agree on good practices that are fair to the Internet and fair to ICANN
> and fair to the Registrants. There would be some areas left out, some
> practices on which the Domain Industry would be reluctant to restrain itself.
> The community can loo!
> k at those areas, focus on those areas and negotiate with the Industry,
> prescribe measures to control those harms that the Industry clings to. It is
> a lot of work, definitely not work for one person, not in such a hurry.
> Thank you for your positive remarks about the FT proposal.
>
> The problem with this is that ICANN will not be in a position to take ANY
> action if the causes for action (ie the harms or actions that lead to them)
> and the remedies are not codified in the appropriate contracts. And that
> included the contracts with the accredited registrars. So it cannot be left
> to community discussions after-the-fact.
>
> I did not say after-the-fact.
>
> Then you need to define exactly who will negotiate what (and all parties to a
> negotiation actually need to be talking to each other) and explain how this
> will come to closure in sufficient time to publish the final Applicant
> Guidebook.
>
> Many of us have wish-lists of what we would really like to see, but the
> challenge is to finalize all of the details without delaying the first round
> of applications.
>
> Alan
>
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
ICANN Accredited Registrar
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