Re: [ssac-gnso-irdwg] Three more questions on transliteration

[Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Steve,

I am aware only about Google Transliterate,
http://code.google.com/apis/ajaxlanguage/documentation/#Transliteration but
I guess that is not for automatic transliteration ( it is more an IME)

Rafik

2010/5/6 Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@xxxxxxxxx>

>  Dear all,
>
>   I have three questions along the line of transliteration.
>
>  1. Are you aware of any programming libraries that can transliterate most
> scripts into ASCII?
>
>  2. If so, can these libraries and APIs be integrated in the registrar’s
> backend easily?
>
>  3. Would the transliterated results (along with the local script) be of
> satisfactory use for registrants and other users of WHOIS?
>
>  If all of the answers are yes, then this will revive option 3.
>
>
> Warmly,
> Steve
>
>
> On 5/1/10 6:56 AM, "Andrei Kolesnikov" <andrei@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dave, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you
> screw things, but the translation does :)
>
> As Steven mentioned - "fabrika shokolada" is exactly transliteration
> of Russia's фабрика шоколада. If the address is
> "Фабрика Шоколада имени Ленина" the whois ascii output on port
> 43 should be "Fabrika Shokolada imeni Leinina" but not
> "Lenin's Chocolate Fabric".
>
> The translation may work only for historical / well known
> places, like Red Square, Gagarin Street, Mr.Putin, etc. But
> if one needs to send a letter to my home, the transliteration
> address must be used: Moscow, Grayvoronovskaya st., 8-1-80.
>
> However, Russia maybe not a good example, because
> a lot of English being used historically. And it's only
> ASCII for IDNs. We do not plan yet other option.
>
> Some samples:
>
> Домен blacksabbath.ru
> domain: BLACKSABBATH.RU
> nserver: parking1.nic.ru.
> nserver: parking2.nic.ru.
> state: REGISTERED, DELEGATED, VERIFIED
> person: Yanus P Nevstruev
> phone: +7 495 2502030
> phone: +7 903 6663322
> fax-no: +7 495 2518104
> e-mail: domain.for.sale.icq.335520.prices.at@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> e-mail: domen.prodayotsya.icq.335520.ceny.na@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> e-mail: holding.co.united.sites.of.web-adresa@nevstruev.r
> e-mail: holding.soedinyonnye.sayty.web-adresa@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> e-mail: nevstruev@xxxxxxx
> registrar: RUCENTER-REG-RIPN
> created: 2006.09.05
> paid-till: 2010.09.05
> source: TCI
> Last updated on 2010.05.01 14:43:42 MSK/MSD
>
> Домен ленин.su <http://xn--e1aghjb.su>
> domain: XN--E1AGHJB.SU
> nserver: expirepages-kiae-1.nic.ru.
> nserver: expirepages-kiae-2.nic.ru.
> state: REGISTERED, DELEGATED
> person: ITolpekin
> phone: +79099109901
> e-mail: Apollo123@xxxxxxx
> registrar: RUCENTER-REG-FID
> created: 2008.04.28
> paid-till: 2010.04.28
> free-date: 2010.05.31
> source: TCI
> Last updated on 2010.05.01 14:43:42 MSK/MSD
>
> Домен нтв.рф
> domain: XN--B1AVP.XN--P1AI
> state: REGISTERED, NOT DELEGATED, VERIFIED
> org: JSC NTV Television Company
> phone: +7 495 6151314
> phone: +7 495 6178839
> fax-no: +7 495 6177785
> fax-no: +7 495 6178839
> e-mail: adm-group@xxxxxx
> e-mail: aklass@xxxxxx
> registrar: RUCENTER-REG-RF
> created: 2009.11.26
> paid-till: 2010.11.26
> source: TCI
> Last updated on 2010.05.01 14:53:42 MSK/MSD
>
> --andrei
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Metalitz, Steven [mailto:met@xxxxxxx <met@xxxxxxx>]
> > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 5:05 PM
> > To: Dave Piscitello; Andrei Kolesnikov; Avri Doria; Ird
> > Subject: RE: [ssac-gnso-irdwg] Follow up from yesterday's call (what
> > would registration record look like
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > When I refer to "transliteration" I am speaking of how the sounds
> > written in one script would be rendered in another script, rather than
> > a semantic translation of the meaning of those sounds.
> >
> > Thus with respect to "registrant organization," your translation as
> > "Chocolate Factory" may be accurate, but the transliteration would be
> > something like "Fabrika Shokolada."  (Apologies to all those who
> > actually speak Russian and could transliterate this more accurately
> > than I can!)
> >
> > Particularly with respect to data elements such as registrant name and
> > address, transliteration is far more effective than translation in
> > enabling contact with the registrant.
> >
> > Steve Metalitz
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ssac-gnso-irdwg@xxxxxxxxx 
> > [mailto:owner-ssac-gnso-<owner-ssac-gnso->
> > irdwg@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dave Piscitello
> > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:07 AM
> > To: Andrei Kolesnikov; Avri Doria; Ird
> > Subject: Re: [ssac-gnso-irdwg] Follow up from yesterday's call (what
> > would registration record look like
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/30/10 4:37 AM  Apr 30, 2010, "Andrei Kolesnikov" <andrei@xxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Dave, you've ruined the translation/transliteration 100%.
> > > The address/domain name - all killed in your
> >
> > Well, if I'm going to fail, I may as well fail spectacularly.
> >
> > While I failed in one respect, I think I demonstrated what may be a
> > commonly encountered misunderstanding. I don't speak or read Russian.
> > If I were to go to Russia, I might bring a pocket translator. If I see
> > a sign with what appears to be a word майна, I'll type in the Cyrillic
> > characters to "translate" the word. The device is called a translator,
> > so why should I think it does anything but translate? More importantly,
> > what is the difference between what the device "translates" and what
> > you would call "transliterate"?
> >
> > Similarly, today when I search and find a web page in Japanese,
> > Chinese, Arabic, Cyrillic..., my search results offer me the
> > opportunity to "translate" the page. If I were to search and get a
> > result that has a WHOIS record and allow my browser to "translate" the
> > page, will the result be different from the "transliterated" response
> > that a WHOIS/43 application would display?
> >
> > Do these questions have implications on our work? Perhaps they simply
> > prove how utterly ignorant of the world of character sets and languages
> > I am? :-O
> >
> > > Lets stay on the position, that address should be transliterated or
> > > left untouched in local script.
> >
> > Agree, but please give those of us who struggle to understand the
> > differences between transliteration and translation an example of what
> > any of the data I mangled would look like transliterated.
> >
> > > But - we've got your idea about no need to duplicate the same data
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > --andrei
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: owner-ssac-gnso-irdwg@xxxxxxxxx 
> > >> [mailto:owner-ssac-gnso-<owner-ssac-gnso->
> > >> irdwg@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:34 PM
> > >> To: Ird
> > >> Subject: Re: [ssac-gnso-irdwg] Follow up from yesterday's call (what
> > >> would registration record look like
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> Apologies for missing yesterday's call (and not even sending in
> > prior
> > >> apologies)  I had a work call at the time.  But I should have
> > >> remembered to send apologies.
> > >>
> > >> This may have been discussed, but I think it might make sense to
> > >> translate the Registrar provided information. For the most part
> > these
> > >> will be canned translation of setting data so it should not involve
> > >> significant marginal cost/effort to do it.
> > >>
> > >> Of course translating the names of the nameserver and email only
> > work
> > >> if those are indeed existing domain names and email addresses.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> a.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 27 Apr 2010, at 08:02, Dave Piscitello wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I thought it might be helpful to provide an example of what a WHOIS
> > >> reply might look like if a consensus were reached by the committee
> > to
> > >> recommend that
> > >>>
> > >>>       both an ASCII-7 and UTF-8 (IRD) version of a registration
> > >> record be returned
> > >>>
> > >>> *and* that, by convention,
> > >>>
> > >>>       all data elements would be of a format
> > >> <identifier><separator><value><CRLF>
> > >>>
> > >>> Set aside the issue of "who" submits the ASCII7 and UTF-8 versions
> > >> for the moment. I think that is a separate issue with other impacts.
> > >>>
> > >>> Note that the following examples are presented to allow everyone on
> > >> the call to see what I described verbally, and to allow folks not on
> > >> the call to see as well. There are other formats the committee might
> > >> consider superior to this and members are encouraged to comment.
> > >>>
> > >>> The version I create here duplicates all registration information.
> > >>> As
> > >> we have discussed on the list, there may be no need to duplicate the
> > >> fields that the registrar provides (i.e., the committee could
> > >> recommend that these would be represented in ASCII7 only).
> > >>>
> > >>> I used Russian because I know many of the characters (I wrote a
> > >> keyboard translator for a minicomputer in the lat 1970s:-) I'm using
> > >> crude translation from babelfish.yahoo.com and a fictitious IDN TLD
> > >> so there is a high probability that I've botched the
> > >> translation/transliteration - but I hope this conveys the idea.
> > >>>
> > >>> ------ Part 1 of the registration record is in the
> > >>> mandatory/ASCII7--
> > >> ---
> > >>> Domain ID:D2347548-LROR
> > >>> Domain Name:ROCK.STAR
> > >>> Created On:14-Sep-1998 04:00:00 UTC
> > >>> Last Updated On:26-Mar-2010 15:12:28 UTC Expiration Date:07-Dec-
> > 2012
> > >>> 17:04:26 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR)
> > >>> Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED
> > >>> Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
> > >>> Status:DELETE PROHIBITED Status:RENEW PROHIBITED Status:TRANSFER
> > >>> PROHIBITED Status:UPDATE PROHIBITED Registrant ID:CR12376439
> > >>> Registrant Name:Administrator Registrant Organization:Chocolate
> > >>> Factory Registrant Street1:Cherry Lane Registrant Street2:
> > >>> Registrant Street3:
> > >>> Registrant City:Moscow
> > >>> Registrant State/Province:
> > >>> Registrant Postal Code:
> > >>> Registrant Country:Russia
> > >>> Registrant Phone:+7.922.555.1234
> > >>> Registrant Phone Ext.:
> > >>> Registrant FAX:+7.922.555.1235
> > >>> Registrant FAX Ext.:
> > >>> Registrant Email:administrator@xxxxxxxxx Admin ID:CR12376441 Admin
> > >>> Name:Administrator Admin Organization:Chocolate Factory Admin
> > >>> Street1:Cherry Lane Admin Street2:
> > >>> Admin Street3:
> > >>> Admin City:Moscow
> > >>> Admin State/Province:
> > >>> Admin Postal Code:
> > >>> Admin Country:Russia
> > >>> Admin Phone:+7.922.555.1234
> > >>> Admin Phone Ext.:
> > >>> Admin FAX:+7.922.555.1235
> > >>> Admin FAX Ext.:
> > >>> Admin Email:administrator@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>> Tech ID:CR12376440
> > >>> Tech Name:Administrator
> > >>> Tech Organization:Chocolate Factory
> > >>> Tech Street1:Cherry Lane
> > >>> Tech Street2:
> > >>> Tech Street3:
> > >>> Tech City:Moscow
> > >>> Tech State/Province:
> > >>> Tech Postal Code:
> > >>> Tech Country: Russia
> > >>> Tech Phone:+7.922.555.1234
> > >>> Tech Phone Ext.:
> > >>> Tech FAX:+7.922.555.1235
> > >>> Tech FAX Ext.:
> > >>> Tech Email:domain-admin@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>> Name Server:NS1.rock.star
> > >>> Name Server:NS2.rock.star
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> DNSSEC:Signed
> > >>> DS Created:26-Mar-2010 15:12:06 UTC
> > >>> DS Maximum Signature Life 1:3456000 seconds DS Created:26-Mar-2010
> > >>> 15:12:28 UTC DS Maximum Signature Life 2:3456000 seconds
> > >>> ------- Part 2 of the record is in a character set the registrant
> > >>> Domain ID:D2347548-LROR Domain Name: утес.звезда Created
> > >>> On:14-Sep-1998 04:00:00 UTC Last Updated On:26-Mar-2010 15:12:28
> > UTC
> > >>> Expiration Date:07-Dec-2012 17:04:26 UTC Sponsoring
> > >>> Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR) Status:CLIENT DELETE
> > >>> PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT TRANSFER
> > >>> PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED Status:DELETE PROHIBITED
> > >>> Status:RENEW PROHIBITED Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:UPDATE
> > >>> PROHIBITED Registrant ID:CR12376439 Registrant Name:администратор
> > >>> Registrant Organization: Фабрика шоколада Registrant Street1: майна
> > >>> вишни Registrant Street2:
> > >>> Registrant Street3:
> > >>> Registrant City: Москва
> > >>> Registrant State/Province:
> > >>> Registrant Postal Code:
> > >>> Registrant Country: Россия
> > >>> Registrant Phone:+7.922.555.1234
> > >>> Registrant Phone Ext.:
> > >>> Registrant FAX:+7.922.555.1235
> > >>> Registrant FAX Ext.:
> > >>> Registrant Email: администратор@утес.звезда Admin ID:CR12376441
> > >>> Admin Name: администратор Admin Organization: Фабрика шоколада
> > Admin
> > >>> Street1: майна вишни Admin Street2:
> > >>> Admin Street3:
> > >>> Admin City: Москва
> > >>> Admin State/Province:
> > >>> Admin Postal Code:
> > >>> Admin Country: Россия
> > >>> Admin Phone:+7.922.555.1234
> > >>> Admin Phone Ext.:
> > >>> Admin FAX:+7.922.555.1235
> > >>> Admin FAX Ext.:
> > >>> Admin Email: администратор@утес.звезда Tech ID:CR12376440 Tech
> > Name:
> > >>> администратор Tech Organization: Фабрика шоколада Tech Street1:
> > >>> майна вишни Tech Street2:
> > >>> Tech Street3:
> > >>> Tech City: Москва
> > >>> Tech State/Province:
> > >>> Tech Postal Code:
> > >>> Tech Country: Россия
> > >>> Tech Phone:+7.922.555.1234
> > >>> Tech Phone Ext.:
> > >>> Tech FAX:+7.922.555.1235
> > >>> Tech FAX Ext.:
> > >>> Tech Email: администратор@утес.звезда Name Server: ns1.утес.звезда
> > >>> Name Server:ns2.утес.звезда Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> Name Server:
> > >>> DNSSEC:Signed
> > >>> DS Created:26-Mar-2010 15:12:06 UTC
> > >>> DS Maximum Signature Life 1:3456000 seconds DS Created:26-Mar-2010
> > >>> 15:12:28 UTC DS Maximum Signature Life 2:3456000 seconds
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>