Re: names and suing people

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Michael and all,

Michael Dillon wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Einar Stefferud wrote:
>
> > My solution is to manufacture the required central coordinating root
> > authority by forming a confederation of root service providers and TLD
> > registry service providers, and registrar service providers, and even
> > DNS ZONE administrators at any and all levels of the DNS tree, to use
> > Rough Consensus and Running Code processes to build agreements about
> > how the root should be coordinated and operated.
>
> Who died and made you God?

  Nobody.  And Stef is not implying this.  It seems that you are however.
Interesting.

> By what right does your little cabal take over
> *OUR* domain name system?

  Who is *Our* Michael?  The IAHC/MoU folks perhaps?  Not!  Again interestingAND
reveling indeed!

> What makes you think that a monopoly cartel is a
> better solution than an IANA that recognizes it is a trustee of a public
> resource?

  What Trustee?  Whom specifically do you refer to?

> Since whatever organization is at the center of this whole deal
> only holds its authority at the pleasure of Internet users, it seems to me
> that the simplest structure is the best structure with the least
> opportunity for petty political games.

  Correct Michael.  Simple is a very difficult term to define in this situation
however.

>
>
> > So, in my view, the root of the power to define the location of the
> > DNS ROOT is located in the edge connected systems owner's heads, and
> > there is no central authority that can ever get control of all those
> > heads and passwords and files to dictate where the DNS ROOT is
> > located.
>
> Precisely. Since this is the case, what is your objection to IANA being
> the central authority?

  The WP is one of many reasons for objection.  The fact that the IANAhas not
been effective in getting agreeable gTLD's into the Root is yet another.

> There is no danger that IANA can get control of the
> DNS root except as the users of the Internet allow it to exercize control.

  This is good to hear form you Michael.  Than you should be supporting
a Stakeholder Vote on any and all policies/private industry
regulations/resolutions
for providing the base for that authority.

>
>
> > It can only be done by convincing the edges to agree with the
> > central coordinating body, and the best way to do that is to give the
> > edges a voice and a choice in the governance.
>
> Bullshit. The edges have never had a voice in governance in the past yet
> they *HAVE* agreed with IANA as the sentral coordinating body.

                                                                ^central

This was the past Michael.  Not the present or the future.

>
>
> > If they all suddenly understood that they collectively and
> > independently have a choice of where they point for root service, the
> > whole situation would suddenly change overnight.
>
> And pigs would fly... Let's keep this grounded in the real world, shall
> we?

  Than please land will you?

>
>
> > So, many of us are stuck in the old NETWORK paradigm wherein central
> > control was required an always present.  Remember that the ARPANET was
> > a network, not an Internet.  ARPA owned and centrally controlled the
> > whole thing, including modem ports on the TIPS (Terminal Interface
> > Processors).  IANA arose out of this long standing network central
> > control tradition, and has in my view, failed to shift into the
> > Internet paradigm which is based on edge control in place of central
> > control.
>
> This is just plain silly. The Internet has nothing to do with the ARPAnet
> other than some shared technology. IANA arose out of a recordkeeping
> function and had nothing to do with control. The Internet has always been
> controlled by the grassroots since it was the grassroots that created the
> Internet by interconnecting their networks with one another.

  True.  And as such you should have no problem with the role of the IANA or
nIANA changing rather dramatically as the Grassroots desire and demand
that it does change.  This was pointed out fairly plainly in the WP.

>
>
> > It is interesting and sort of amazing that the very people who
> > invented TCP/IP and labored to make it work, do not appear to have
> > noticed how power has shifted to the edges, so that the old
> > traditional central authority structures are now disfunctional.
>
> Why do we care about Kahn and Cerf here? They are barely even involved in
> this discussion.

  As they are Stakeholders and fairly knowledgeable ones they should have a
voice
in the process of Transition.

>
>
> > My proposals, which are also endorsed by most of the ORSC participants
> > and which are documented on the www.open-rsc.org web site, call for a
> > sort of customer/producer cooperative which is designed to aggregate
> > power from service providers and service customers into a coordination
> > management system that remains edge controlled while providing
> > administration of central coordination.
>
> This model failed to work in the Soviet Union. Why do you think it will
> work on the global Internet? Perhaps because you realize that it will
> devolve into a powerful apparatchik class that really runs the show and
> you will be one of them?

  You mischaracterize Stef view here I think Michael.

>
>
> > Our current thoughts are to simple open up associations of some kind
> > for each stakeholder class and letting anyone who fits the class
> > definition join the class organization and thus obtain voting power
> > and a stakeholder's voice in governance.
>
> Why the hell should I have to do all this work to get my voice heard? I
> much prefer the model where IANA as a public trustee must figure out what
> I want and do it. Let them do the work of finding out what the different
> stakeholders want.

  Interesting comment indeed here Michael.  The IANA has in the past and even
currently are not listening.  That is why they are not equipped to be "Mapped"
into the new non-profit corporation which the WP calls for.

>
>
> --
> Michael Dillon                 -               Internet & ISP Consulting
> Memra Communications Inc.      -               E-mail: michael@memra.com
> Check the website for my Internet World articles -  http://www.memra.com
>
>

regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com