Re: [gnso-osc] Another Attempt at a Final Response to the CCT

[Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx>]

hi,

I am fine with sending it to them.

I suggested changes, but did not mean to hold thing up.

I think they can also be referred to the email archive on the topic (if they 
haven't been reading it already)

a.

On 7 Dec 2009, at 16:16, Gomes, Chuck wrote:

> Would it suffice to simply call attention to Postel's theorem for
> consideration by the CCT?
> 
> I think it is important to get a response back to the CCT. We have spent
> enough time on this one point. The discussion has been good but we could
> keep going on and in the meantime we have not responded to the CCT.  I
> want to wrap this up today or tomorrow at the latest and will propose a
> way to do that later today that hopefully is acceptable to all.
> 
> Chuck
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx 
>> [mailto:owner-gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:16 AM
>> To: gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: Scott Pinzon
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-osc] Another Attempt at a Final Response to the CCT
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I guess that points to my problem.  
>> 
>> 
>> Civility is something that people think is due to them. I.e. 
>> People should treat me with civility or else i will complain 
>> to the ombudsman.  
>> 
>> The problem being that civility is defined within a cultural 
>> milieu.  And as most things in ICANN the rules are not easily learned.
>> 
>> Tolerance on the other hand means accepting it, even when 
>> someone treats me with what i consider incivility.  Tolerance 
>> transcends the cultural limitation of civility.
>> 
>> Yes we should treat people with civility and should teach 
>> this by example and without the threatened whip of an 
>> ombudsman as the bogeyman who will get us if we behave with 
>> what seems to be incivility by someone.    Bringing the 
>> ombudsman into the internal operations of the volunteer corps 
>> seems to me to be a really bad idea. 
>> 
>> But more importantly, we should behave with tolerance where 
>> we remain civil even someone seems to treat us badly.
>> 
>> As I said, I go back to the variant of Postel's theorem as 
>> the driving mantra for ICANN - be conservative in what you 
>> send and liberal in what you accept, i.e. be civil but tolerant.
>> 
>> 
>> a.
>> 
>> On 6 Dec 2009, at 16:28, Vanda UOL wrote:
>> 
>>> For me, both, explicitly have tolerance included or just 
>> rely on the Ombudsman office will work. The most important 
>> thing is really improve the level of civility in writing/F2F 
>> or telephone communication or we will face a drop of 
>> participation in ICANN challenging our capacity to accomplish AoC.
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> <image001.jpg>
>>> Vanda Scartezini
>>> Polo Consultores Associados
>>> Alameda Santos 1470 #1407
>>> Tel - +55.11.3266.6253
>>> Mob- +55.11.8181.1464
>>> vanda@xxxxxxxxxx
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: owner-gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of Ken Bour
>>> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 3:57 PM
>>> To: gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Cc: 'Scott Pinzon'
>>> Subject: [gnso-osc] Another Attempt at a Final Response to the CCT
>>> 
>>> OSC Members:
>>> 
>>> In the interest of continuing to make progress on the CCT 
>> letter, I reinserted paragraph 4(a) and, following Chuck's 
>> original suggestion, noted that the OSC is not unanimous on 
>> this recommendation (see below).  All other edits were 
>> accepted and comments removed (clean version attached).
>>> 
>>> For ease of reference, my suggested modification to 4(a) 
>> follows... is this language be acceptable to everyone?
>>> a)      Executive Summary Recommendations (last bullet 
>> point) and 2.5.7 Degradation in Civility
>>> Recommendation:  "Encourage the understanding of opposing 
>> perspectives, while maintaining a spirit of cooperation and civility"
>>> Comment:  Civility is clearly called for in ICANN's 
>> Expected Standards of Behavior (see Section F); however, as 
>> the organization begins to incorporate more diverse cultures, 
>> some members of the OSC believe that increasing our tolerance 
>> of others is also important.  Would the CCT consider a 
>> modification to the recommendation, such as, "...maintaining a 
>> spirit of cooperation, civility and tolerance"?  Note: The 
>> OSC is not unanimous on this recommendation.  While some 
>> members would like to see "tolerance" added explicitly, 
>> others believe that the ICANN code satisfactorily embraces 
>> this concept (e.g. third bullet beginning with TREAT) and 
>> that the GNSO should adopt the standards as written or seek 
>> to have them amended officially by working through the ICANN 
>> Ombudsman office.
>>> 
>>> Ken Bour
>>> 
>>> From: owner-gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of Philip Sheppard
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:16 AM
>>> To: gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: FW: [gnso-osc] Final response to the CCT
>>> 
>>> Chuck, yes indeed  apologies.
>>> It should read:
>>> Robin,
>>> I do not understand your comment that the Ombudsman 
>> principles fail to address tolerance.
>>> See below especially paragraphs I've highlighted in blue 
>> (bullet 3,4, 5 and 6).Isn't bullet 3 a definition of tolerance?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Gomes, Chuck [mailto:cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:08 PM
>>> To: Philip Sheppard; gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: [gnso-osc] Final response to the CCT
>>> 
>>> Philip,
>>> 
>>> Did you man bullet 3?
>>> 
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>>> From: owner-gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of Philip Sheppard
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:07 AM
>>> To: gnso-osc@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: [gnso-osc] Final response to the CCT
>>> 
>>> Robin,
>>> I do not understand your comment that the Ombudsman 
>> principles fail to address tolerance.
>>> See below especially paragraphs I've highlighted in blue 
>> (bullet 4,5, 6 and 7).Isn't bullet 4 a definition of tolerance?
>>> 
>>> 
>> http://www.icann.org/en/transparency/acct-trans-frameworks-principles-
>>> 10jan08.pdf
>>> Philip
>>> -----------------------
>>> F. ICANN EXPECTED STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR Those who take part 
>> in ICANN 
>>> multi-stakeholder process including Board, staff and all those 
>>> involved in Supporting Organization and Advisory Committee 
>> councils undertake to:
>>> * Act in accordance with ICANN's Bylaws. In particular, 
>> participants 
>>> undertake to act within the mission of ICANN and in the 
>> spirit of the values contained in the Bylaws.
>>> * Adhere to the conflict of interest policy laid out in the Bylaws.
>>> * Treat all members of the ICANN community equally, irrespective of 
>>> nationality, gender, racial or ethnic origin, religion or beliefs, 
>>> disability, age, or sexual orientation; members of the 
>> ICANN community should treat each other with civility both 
>> face to face and online.
>>> * Act in a reasonable and informed manner when 
>> participating in policy 
>>> development and decision-making processes. This includes regularly 
>>> attending all scheduled meetings and exercising independent 
>> judgment 
>>> based solely on what is in the overall best interest of 
>> Internet users 
>>> and the stability and security of the Internet's system of unique 
>>> identifiers, irrespective of personal interests and the 
>> interests of the entity to which an individual might owe 
>> their appointment.
>>> * Listen to the views of all stakeholders when considering policy 
>>> issues. ICANN is a unique multi-stakeholder environment. Those who 
>>> take part in the ICANN process must acknowledge the 
>> importance of all stakeholders and seek to understand their 
>> points of view.
>>> * Work to build consensus with other stakeholders in order to find 
>>> solutions to the issues that fall within the areas of ICANN's 
>>> responsibility. The ICANN model is based on a bottom-up, consensus 
>>> driven approach to policy development. Those who take part in the 
>>> ICANN process must take responsibility for ensuring the 
>> success of the model by trying to build consensus with other 
>> participants.
>>> * Act in accordance with ICANN policies.
>>> * Protect the organization's assets and ensure their 
>> efficient and effective use.
>>> * Act fairly and in good faith with other participants in 
>> the ICANN process.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>