RE: [apralo] Action items from APRALO Vancouver meeting

["Jonathan Shea" <jonathan.shea@xxxxxxxx>]

Dear all,

Sorry that I have missed the APRALO meeting in Vancouver.  After reading the
draft minutes in the email below, I want to echo that I personally believe
APRALO have a role to play in channeling the opinions and needs of
individual Internet users in different countries and economies in this
region to ICANN and to other international Internet-related bodies.  This
regional coordination role will exist in other form(s) in the unlikely event
that RALO is not going to materialize.

As to the call for volunteers, I am still offering myself to help in the
Business Planning Group (as I did in the Luxembourg meeting), and other
Steering Group (if I am qualified given that I am not representing a
certified ALAC).

Regards,
Jonathan Shea, HKIRC

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-apralo@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-apralo@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
ICANN At-Large - Denise Michel
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 4:53 AM
To: apralo@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [apralo] Action items from APRALO Vancouver meeting

Greetings.

Included below are follow-up actions from the December 2005 APRALO 
meetings in Vancouver.  Please feel free to suggest additions/changes. 
(Send emails to: apralo@xxxxxxxxxx )

1) Agree on work plan for APRALO formation (includes finalizing bylaws, 
MOU, operational details, outreach and meeting schedule)
        Action:  draft plan will be circulated for discussion
2) Revise bylaws per meeting discussion and work towards final agreement
        Action:  provide any additional comments to attached draft bylaws
for 
incorporation in next draft
        Drafting Group: Stafford Guest, David Farrar, Hong Xue
3) Discuss draft MOU language
        Action:  draft MOU language will be circulated based on ICANN bylaws

and volunteers' input
        Drafting Group: Stafford Guest, David Farrar, Hong Xue (Denise
Michel)
4) Update and agree on outreach plan and meeting schedule
        Action: circulate draft plan for discussion
        Outreach Group: Hong Xue, Ching Chiao, Franck Martin, (Siavash 
Shahshahani for Tommy Matsumoto?)
5) Review/add to volunteer assignments (see below) including APRALO 
formation Chairs/Steering Group
        Action:  share suggestions and volunteer through this email list
6) Review current secretariate needs/services and seek volunteers
        Action:  share suggestions and volunteer through this email list
7) Explore scheduling APRALO meeting at APRICOT and in Hong Kong at 
conference sponsored by Afilias
        Action:  need volunteer to organize APRICOT meeting and Hong Kong 
meeting (if feasible)
8) Create APRALO formation email list updated/maintained by ICANN
        Action:  done - apralo@xxxxxxxxxx
9) Review/approve meeting minutes for APRALO 2 December 2005 09:00 am 
meeting (see below) (no notes from smaller evening meeting, just the 
agreed to action items listed here)
        Action:  send edits to this email list


Thanks.
Denise
michel@xxxxxxxxx

===================================

Volunteer Assignments (done in July at Luxembourg meeting)
- Steering Group/Chairs - *need volunteer/s
- Drafting Group - provide draft bylaws and MOU  for group review
        Volunteers: Stafford Guest, David Farrar, Hong Xue
- Business Plan Group  - provide draft APRALO operations plan
        Volunteers:  Ku Wei Wu, Izumi Aizu, other?
- Outreach Group  - provide draft outreach plan and contact more 
groups/potential participants
        Volunteers:  Tommy Matsumoto, Hong Xue, Ching Chiao, Franck Martin

=============================

APRALO Formation Meeting
2 December 2005
09:00
Vancouver
(recorded by Jacob Malthouse)
*DRAFT NOTES* *NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION*

EDMUND
Concerns seems to be formation of a council that would be regionally 
representative. Idea: council may be formed later. RALO can help to do 
outreach first.

KUO-WEI
Two comments:
If RALO doesn't work? What is the legitimacy of doing interim for ever

HOWARD
Is it necessary to form a formal ALAC structure? ICANN is an open structure.

DENISE
RALO structure is intended to facilitate user group decisions about who 
will participate on the ALAC.  One useful area is as a secretariat to 
assist with nomination and translation. Don't think of RALO as 
requirement. Loosely defined structure. It will do what we will find 
useful for the region.

HONG
Suggestion: five minutes for IZUMI to explain his RALO idea.
Issue: are we working hard to establish a concept that will be a failure?
Principles of RALO: openness, transparency and inclusive.

SHESHAN
Suggest all discussion about RALO be delegated to some other meeting. 
Lets work on agenda as it is.

STAFFORD
First meeting about this at Luxemburg. RALO was established. I support 
RALO. Enough people here to make a positive input.

SEBASTIAN
RALO will be as successful as you make it.

EDMUND
This is not a bad discussion. But agree we should focus on the current 
framework. Can we have a less formal structure. Facilitating role.

JOINS: DAVID FARRER - chair of internet new Zealand.

EDMUND
Look at GAC model?

KUO-WEI
Organise people working on outreach/finance. Council is not hierarchical 
or bureaucratic. Wants to ensure coordination. A lot of this has already 
been discussed.

HONG
How can we make people outside of the meeting aware of this process?

DENISE
Minutes will be circulated.

HONG
If there is going to be an APRALO. It will be the first one. There is no 
model to follow. We will be pioneers. ICANN approved draft of RALO. This 
is going to be a challenge. We have five regions in the  World. Standard 
or differing models. Key constituencies in ICANN are going to reform as 
result of WSIS. We need to keep an open mind.

CHAIR (Chair for this meeting was Izumi Aizu)
Current observation.
Myself, Esther and Denise (DENISE and others.Vittorio) DISCUSSION. 
Developed RALO. How to effectively channel the global voice of users in 
the advisory? We need a channel. ICANN is global. Because meetings 
expensive, have local groups to collate input from regions. ALS could be 
issue or region based. We decided to have a structure to help manage and 
ensure the quality of interaction from users.

Second point. Measure of legitimacy? Countries/companies/people etc? yes 
have some doubt about RALO. But let's see how things develop in practice.

SEBASTIAN

Some NA ALAC members have their own agendas. Board and voting discussion 
is Byzantine, not sure we will solve it now or tomorrow. Good thing is 
that new organisations are becoming interested. The AP RALO will serve 
as an example for other regions to encourage them to grow and start 
their own RALOs.


HOWARD**
Have better understanding thanks. Why do we need a bylaw? Prefer 
something informal.

KUO-WEI
What is the legitimacy of ALAC? Interim for ever? Don't want uniform 
structures. Every region has its own process.

HONG
Believe that ICANN would like to maintain a bottom line of uniformity. 
One region could use GAC model, another could use ALAC, every region 
should have a RALO, that is bottom line. But understand that this is an 
experiment and we need to be courageous.

SEBASTIAN

Most interim members are not planning to be here the rest of our lives.

CHAIR

Summing up. LEGITIMACY is key. Is RALO the right structure? Especially 
if it has a heavyweight structure? No one insisting on heavyweight 
structure. Some uncertainty about the future of global RALO. Majority of 
people agree we need to be courageous.

STAFFORD

Personal feeling is we need some "rules" to say this is how we are going 
to conduct our business. If we have some informal rules it might help us 
to focus our business. Refer to TAIWAN meeting document as a basis for 
discussion.

FRANCK MARTIN

You need a chairman to help coordinate and liaise. ICANN may provide 
support once RALO is up and running.

BYLAWS

GARTH
I would like to talk about the bylaws:

3.1.2  Change expression at beginning "to promote and represent" to 
"understand and advocate for"

Council and council meetings: specify that council meetings are OPEN.

HONG
Suggest that each presentation/intervention should be maximum five minutes.

FRANCK

These things should be up to the chair to conduct meetings as they want.

CHAIR

Agree to create RALO?

HOWARD

Do we need to discuss bylaw today? Do we have enough people in the 
region? AL is representative of the end users. I formally represent ISOC 
China and would like to see more representatives of the same 
qualifications.

DAVID
People don't join organisations like this to debate bylaws. Need a 
workable-flexible structure, then move on to talking about the issues. 
Lets move quickly.

KUO-WEI

HOWARD can you define numbers?

HOWARD

One person from two-thirds of country or regional economy.

KUO-WEI

So now is not right time because not enough people?

HOWARD

That is what I am suggesting.

HONG

Nature of our discussion? See concern from Howard and Guo Weh.  We need 
consensus in this room are we ready to take these decisions about they 
bylaws?

CHAIR

Anyone want to decide bylaws immediately?

Silence

CHAIR

Anyone not want to discuss bylaws?
Silence

CHAIR

Suggest we discuss for 30 min. circulate. Decide how to decide next step.

EDMUND

Should we call it bylaw? Something else?

SEBASTIAN

Voting mechanism and council at this point? Maybe have a light structure 
and first and develop this over time?

CHAIR

Think everyone agrees

ROBERTO

Timing and interest of people: next ICANN meeting will take place in 
Wellington. Put yourself in the best position for that meeting. 
Wellington will be a stage for you to be operational.

SHASHANI

ICANN bylaws define what a RALO is.  Clause: ALAC / RALO relationship 
has to be defined. READS FROM ICANN BYLAWS.

Lets focus on the concept of membership?

FRANCK

Suggest we review bylaw and submit them to a vote.

EDMUND

That is a quick and dirty way to go about it. Some of the concerns 
raised today warns us to go a little bit further in our discussions. We 
should thank Stafford but could also revise this as he suggested.

HONG
No objection to current text. Rather than going through provisions one 
by one. We should establish some principles or guidelines for the bylaws.

Strongly suggest that there should be video or sound recording in future.

I just got this version of the bylaws last night. Makes it difficult to 
comment.

CHAIR

Minutes of Taipei were circulated following Taipei.  Bylaws were 
finished a week following Taipei and circulated

HONG

I cannot receive all and every message.

CHAIR

Did you raise that before?

HONG

Suggest we reform our communication system.

DENISE

Given challenges in working internationally. It would be appropriate for 
us to use the AP RALO website / email list / and other infrastructure. 
Have asked ICANN webmaster to create and maintain that list and ensure 
website operational. ICANN will ensure audio and video webcast of all 
future meetings.

CHAIR

In the interim good solution. We should also have our own structure.

FRANCK

This is just some rules of proceeding together. Only one thing is 
missing. How do we change these bylaws?  Could we put a rule about how 
to change the bylaws and that will make it easier for us to move forward.

Council should meet annually? Perhaps better to meet every time ICANN is 
in the region?

HOWARD

Hesitate to call it bylaw.

CHAIR

Suggestion?

HOWARD

Principles of action.

CHAIR

Have to finish meeting in 30 mins

EDMUND

Suggest operating principles.

Suggest one further redraft.

ALAC allows voice of user to be heard on the board.

ROBERTO

Keep Wellington in mind for furthering the discussion.

ALAC gives an additional opportunity to interact directly with the 
board. RALO allows for coordination and channelling of ideas into 
formalised opinions.

SEBASTIAN

Thanks for saying ICANN open!

VITTORIO

This work should be region driven. Understand you have a difficult job. 
Your region is large and diverse. If you succeed this will really be a 
true success. Want to thank everyone for their hard work.

SHASHANI

Channel created to allow

Could we continue to discuss this online so that before the next meeting 
we have something.

HOWARD

I am one with reservation about bylaws.  I would like to see more 
outreach before we have formal discussion.

EDMUND

Would like to meet again to plan outreach etc.

FRANCK

As long as we leave it open for change to occur we should be ok. Lets 
agree this structure and then we can amend over time.

CHAIR

Appropriate diversity may be hard to gauge in this discussion.
Suggest we discuss this further informally.

SHASHANI

Suggest you create an AP RALO to discuss this

CHAIR

We have a list already.

SHASHANI

Suggesting a specific list for the BYLAWs.

DAVID

Two major upcoming meetings  APRICOT - Perth February.  Next ICANN 
meeting is in Wellington.

CHAIR

Another meeting at 1800 today.