RE: [gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] MP3 Translation and Transliteration of Contact Information PDP WG meeting - 06 March 2014

["Dillon, Chris" <c.dillon@xxxxxxxxx>]

Dear Sarmad,

Thank you very much for your contribution. I think we certainly need to add 
both terms to our definitions page. I will wait for any responses to this email 
before doing that.

Personally I believe in making things as simple and intuitive (e.g. close to 
what normally gets written on an envelope) as possible for those 
transliterating or translating and ideally the use of exonyms for at least 
countries and major cities would be part of that. Most English speakers do not 
know what Krung Thep is.

If, however, we are unable to locate a user-friendly list of such exonyms, we 
may be driven to transliteration. At least that would be a very simple rule: 
“Transliterate the address using the national standard transliteration.”

Incidentally, it is interesting that there are two possible Japanese 
pronunciations and transliterations of 日本 ‘Japan’: the formal Nippon, as on 
postage stamps, or the more commonly used Nihon.

I am about to send a couple of other emails picking up points made by Amr, 
Peter Dernbach, Rudi et al. during the call.

Regards,

Chris.
--
Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, 
Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) 
ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon

From: owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sarmad Hussain
Sent: 07 March 2014 03:36
To: gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] MP3 Translation and Transliteration of 
Contact Information PDP WG meeting - 06 March 2014

Dear All,

Thank you for sharing the recordings and sorry for not being able to make to 
the call.

Listening to the recording, regarding the excellent discussion by Chris on 
transliteration inaccuracies, I would like to contribute two terminology words 
and a comment specifically in the context of the discussion around Krung Thep 
and Bangkok (in which Bangkok is being recommended during the call).

United Nation Group of Experts on Geographic Names (UNGEGN) suggests the 
following relevant terminology:

Exonym is the name used in a specific language for a geographical feature 
situated outside the area where that language has official status, and 
differing in its form from the name used in the official language or languages 
of the area where the geographical feature is situated. Examples: Warsaw is the 
English exonym for Warszawa; Londres is French for London; Mailand is German 
for Milano. The officially romanized endonym Moskva for Москва is not an 
exonym, nor is the Pinyin form Beijing, while Peking is an exonym.
Endonym is the name of a geographical feature in one of the languages occurring 
in that area where the feature is situated. Examples: Vārānasī (not Benares); 
Aachen (not Aix-la-Chapelle); Krung Thep (not Bangkok); al-Uqşur (not Luxor); 
Teverya (not Tiberias).
And in addition, please note that
The United Nations recommends minimizing the use of exonyms in international 
usage
Thus, Bangkok is not the recommended form by the UN.    The same applies to 
other examples from Taiwan discussed in the call, where transliteration/pinyin 
is recommended by the UN instead of the popular romanized versions.  Thus, if 
we want to keep Bangkok (over the transliteration) we may want to document 
clear reasons why we want to diverge from this recommendation.  Or other 
possibility is that we stick to the UN recommendation and use the 
transliterated forms (as this may be more consistent for all city names even if 
it means some names may not be in their popular exonyms).

Regards,
Sarmad

From: 
owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Terri Agnew
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 8:39 PM
To: gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: gnso-secs@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:gnso-secs@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] MP3 Translation and Transliteration of 
Contact Information PDP WG meeting - 06 March 2014

Dear All,

Please find the MP3 recording for the Translation and Transliteration of 
Contact Information PDP Charter Drafting Team call held on Thursday 06 March at 
14:00 UTC at:
http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-transliteration-contact-20140306-en.mp3


On page:
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#mar<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar%23mar>
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO
Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/

Attendees:
Jim Galvin - SSAC
Ahkuputra Wanawit – GAC
Mae Suchayapim Siriwat – GAC
Peter Green - NCUC
Petter Rindforth – IPC
Rudi Vansnick – NPCO
Chris Dillon – NCSG
Pitinan Kooarmornpatana – GAC
Jennifer Chung - RySG
Wolf-Ulrich Knoben – ISPCP
Amr Elsadar – NCUC
Vinay Kumar Singh – Individual
Peter Dernbach - IPC

Apologies:
Justine Chew – At-Large
Ephriam Percy Kenyanito – NCUC

ICANN staff:
Julie Hedlund
Amy Bivins
Glen de Saint Gery
Lars Hoffman
Terri Agnew


** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

 Wiki page: http://tinyurl.com/mpwxstx

Thank you.
Kind regards,

Terri Agnew
GNSO Secretariat
gnso.secretariat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:gnso.secretariat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
http://gnso.icann.org

Adobe Chat Transcript for Thursday 06 March 2014:




Terri Agnew:Welcome to the Translation and Transliteration of Contact 
Information PDP Working Group on Thursday 06 March 2014

  Chris Dillon:Hello, all

  Pitinan Kooarmornpatana:Hello

  Julie Hedlund:Hello everyone!

  Peter Green-CONAC:Hi, all

  VINAY KUMAR SINGH:Hi

  Rudi Vansnick:hu everyone

  Peter Dernbach:Hello everyone.

  Wanawit Ahkuputra:Sawasdee

  Jennifer Chung:Hi all

  Amr Elsadr:Hi all. Dialling in now.

  Mae Suchayapim Siriwat:hello

  Terri Agnew:Wolf Knoben has joined

  Wolf Knoben:Hello all

  Chris Dillon:https://community.icann.org/x/bgDRAg

  Julie Hedlund:@Chris: I can try to see if I can go to the URL and share my 
screen.

  Chris Dillon:Thanks

  Rudi 
Vansnick:https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/47251566/SO-AC%20.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1392913027000&api=v2

  Terri Agnew:Jim Galvin has joined audio

  Rudi Vansnick:sorry wrong link

  Amr Elsadr:I can't seem to find the final draft submitted by ALAC now.

  Rudi Vansnick:https://community.icann.org/x/bgDRAg

  Rudi Vansnick:it is at the bottom of the page ...

  Rudi Vansnick:exact

  Rudi Vansnick:sorry .. i was also on another tel call ...  available now

  Rudi Vansnick:multi-tasking OK  multi-listening not OK ;-)

  Amr Elsadr:@Rudi: I don't see why tranlation/transliteration would help 
manage the relationship between registrars and registrants?? How does that help?

  Rudi Vansnick:@Amr: in case of detailed information if issues are poping up 
with their domain name

  Lars Hoffmann:Just to remind the Group that the outcome of the EWG will form 
the basis for a subsequent GNSO PDP (see also  
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/active/rds)

  Pitinan Kooarmornpatana:+1 to Peter & Amr

  Peter Dernbach:+1 @Amr

  Amr Elsadr:@Rudi: Why do registrars need this info translated/transliterated 
to deal with popping up issues? I still don't see the association.

  Rudi Vansnick:if the registrar is not fro msame region and can not read the 
IDN data

  Amr Elsadr:@Rudi: Registrars are not required to provide services in all 
languages. If they do, it's up to them to be able to communicate with their 
customers. However, why would a registrar in Korea providing services in Korean 
for a Korean IDN be required to translate contact information??

  Amr Elsadr:Just as an example?

  Amr Elsadr:@Chris: Sorry, but which question are we on?

  Rudi Vansnick:@AMR : 6 now

  Amr Elsadr:Thanks. :)

  Amr Elsadr:Is this a final ALAC statement? It doesn't seem to be.

  Amr Elsadr:That comment makes no sense to me!!

  Rudi Vansnick:@Amr : this is quite a normal reaction from the EC

  Rudi Vansnick:protecting the user/consumer is at high level of priority

  Rudi Vansnick:especially by commissioner Kroes

  Amr Elsadr:Although I don't agree with the Thai GAC rep's comment, it does 
make sense as an opinion.

  Rudi Vansnick:i will have to leave the call 5 minutes befor ethe hour as I'm 
chairing another call  just after

  Amr Elsadr:Just that i agree with Kathy.

  Amr Elsadr:I would like to get input from registrars on this topic. They have 
far more experience than anyone else does on verification/validation practices.

  Pitinan Kooarmornpatana:The suggestion would be each local language would 
need to most proper reference to refer to

  Amr Elsadr:If I'm not mistaken, the UPU addressing system is the standard for 
display of addresses in the 2013 RAA.

  Amr Elsadr:Just for the formatting.

  Amr Elsadr:I agree that it is cumbersome.

  Amr Elsadr:Especially if there will be a policy for 
tranlation/transliteration.

  Peter Dernbach:Thanks Chris, Rudi and All!

  Julie Hedlund:Thank you everyone!

  Amr Elsadr:Thanks all.

  Jennifer Chung:Thank you Chris, thank you all.

  Pitinan Kooarmornpatana:Thanks all

  Chris Dillon:Thank you all.

  Mae Suchayapim Siriwat:thank you