Re: [gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] Draft initial report

[Amr Elsadr <aelsadr@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Lars,

Personally, I find this approach rather odd. The WG is the bottom of the 
bottom-up policy development process. It’s supposed to make concrete 
recommendations that are clearly stated in the initial report (or a draft of 
this report) with a clear indication of the WG’s consensus level with these 
recommendations. The WG shouldn't have two sets of conflicting recommendations, 
and ask others to decide which set they like better. That’s what the public 
comment period is for. This also provides an opportunity for any members with a 
minority position to provide a minority statement, which should be attached to 
the draft initial report and equally accessible for community review.

To send a draft with two completely conflicting set of recommendations will 
only serve to confuse the readers/audience on what the consensus of the WG 
members is, following months of dialogue on the advantages and disadvantages of 
mandatory transformation.

At this time, I believe the prudent course of action would be to determine the 
consensus levels among the WG members for each of the two drafts (Chris’ latest 
draft and the one with the modifications made by Petter).

Thanks.

Amr

On Sep 30, 2014, at 11:05 AM, Lars Hoffmann <lars.hoffmann@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Dear Emily, dear all,
> 
> First I would like to say that it is good to see some activity on the mailing 
> list and as the discussion on this important issue moves forward. I just 
> wanted to lay out the groups’ envisaged progress from now until after LA to 
> provide a little clarity where as are:
> 
> 1. Later today or early tomorrow we will send out a Draft Initial Report.
> Please note: This report will reflect both sides of the argument – one 
> supporting and one opposing mandatory transformation of contact information. 
> Consequently it will also contain two sets of recommendations, one 
> recommending mandatory transformation and one not recommending mandatory 
> transformation. Providing both sides of an argument and different sets of 
> recommendations in our Initial Reports will hopefully help focus community 
> feedback more effectively and propel forward the WG's discussion.
> 
> 2. The Draft Initial Report, including both sides of the argument and both 
> sets of recommendations, will be presented to the GNSO during ICANN 51 in LA, 
> and form the basis of the discussion for the WG’s face-to-face meeting.
> Please note: the WG will point out explicitly that there are opposing views 
> among its members and that the WG would like to  encourage feedback on both 
> sides of the argument.
> 
> 3. Based on the feedback, amendments will be made, and an Initial Report  
> will be produced and put out for public comment after ICANN 51
> Please note: Regardless of the discussion/feedback gathered in LA, the 
> Initial Report will contain both sides of the argument and both sets of 
> recommendations, one in favour and one opposing mandatory transformation, to 
> encourage informed feedback on both sides of the argument.
> 
> 4. Based on the community feedback gathered during the public comment period, 
> the Group will then discuss the community submissions and hopefully be able 
> to come to a consensus on either side of the recommendations.
> Please note: Any consensus decision will then be reflected in the WG's 
> recommendations put forward in it Final Report – which is no prejudiced by 
> the wording/reasoning of the Initial Report.
> 
> Based on this, I would like to ask the Group to wait until the Draft Initial 
> Report has been circulated to gather further input/feedback from their 
> constituencies/stakeholder group and/or the wider community.
> 
> If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to get back to me 
> or Julie either on or off list.
> 
> Many thanks and very best wishes,
> Lars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Emily Taylor <emily.taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tuesday, 30 September 2014 10:44
> To: Lars HOFFMANN <lars.hoffmann@xxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: "petter.rindforth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <petter.rindforth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, 
> "Dillon, Chris" <c.dillon@xxxxxxxxx>, "gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx" 
> <gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] Draft initial report
> 
> Dear Petter
> 
> Thank you for marking up and circulating your comments on the draft paper.
> 
> I note that you have deleted the word "not" from draft recommendation #1, 
> which reverses its meaning. This would have the effect of making 
> transformation of contact data mandatory, which has not been the consensus in 
> the working group as far as I am aware.  
> 
> I'm also not sure of the basis for the proposed change "the main part of the 
> stakeholders" in favour of mandatory transformation.  I thought the previous 
> text which acknowledged that "some" are in favour, was a fairer 
> representation of opinions on the working group.
> 
> The recommendation #5 now imposes costs of transformation on registries and 
> registrars.  Again, I do not see this as reflecting the consensus in group.
> 
> You have also removed the important text (page 4, para 3, that the costs of 
> transformation are likely to outweigh the benefits.  This is particularly 
> important as the paper has rehearsed the complexity of 
> transliteration/translation of proper names and address data.
> 
> I will be circulating your draft to the Registrar stakeholder group for 
> comments, but wanted to give an immediate heads up that the changes proposed 
> in your version circulated on 29 September are controversial, unlikely to be 
> acceptable to industry colleagues, and are likely to upset the consensus in 
> the policy working group.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> 
> Emily.  
> 
> On 30 September 2014 08:00, Lars Hoffmann <lars.hoffmann@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Dear Petter,
>> Thank you very much for your amendments - very good to see some activity on 
>> the list. Alas, as you might recall, we are working on a Draft Initial 
>> Report that we thought to send out to the Group today – I  hope to re–edit 
>> the document based on your submission as soon as possible, still, it might 
>> somewhat delay the Draft Report’s completion and distribution for review.
>> Many thanks and best wishes,
>> Lars
>>  
>> 
>> From: Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Reply-To: "petter.rindforth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <petter.rindforth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: Monday, 29 September 2014 22:53
>> To: "Dillon, Chris" <c.dillon@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Cc: "gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx" <gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] Draft initial report
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I have made some "minor" changes, based on the initial IPC comments (see 
>> enclosed).
>> 
>> Best,
>> Petter
>> 
>> -- 
>> Petter Rindforth, LL M 
>> 
>> Fenix Legal KB 
>> Stureplan 4c, 4tr 
>> 114 35 Stockholm 
>> Sweden 
>> Fax: +46(0)8-4631010
>> Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 
>> E-mail: petter.rindforth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> www.fenixlegal.eu 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 12 september 2014, Dillon, Chris <c.dillon@xxxxxxxxx> skrev:
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>  
>>> Just to confirm that it was decided to start work on turning the straw man 
>>> (latest version attached) into a draft initial report, the first version of 
>>> which, it is hoped, will be presented during our call on 25 Sept.
>>>  
>>> In the meantime, please submit any suggestions or corrections to the list. 
>>> Speaking of corrections, note that there is rather a confusing typo in 
>>> paragraph 1 of Appendix B: registrar should read registrant.
>>>  
>>> Regards,
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>> --
>>> Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, 
>>> UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) 
>>> www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon
>>>  
>>> From:owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx 
>>> [mailto:owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nathalie 
>>> Peregrine
>>> Sent: 11 September 2014 21:44
>>> To: gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Cc: gnso-secs@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] MP3 Translation and Transliteration of 
>>> Contact Information PDP WG meeting - 11 September 2014
>>>  
>>> Dear All,
>>> 
>>> Please find the MP3 recording for the Translation and Transliteration of 
>>> Contact Information PDP Working Group call held on Thursday 11 September at 
>>> 1300 UTC at:
>>> http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-transliteration-contact-20140911-en.mp3
>>>  
>>> On page: 
>>> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#sep
>>> 
>>> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO
>>> Master Calendar page:
>>> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/
>>>  
>>> Attendees:
>>> Chris Dillon – NCSG
>>> Ubolthip Sethakaset – Individual
>>> Peter Dernbach- IPC
>>> Pitinan Kooarmornpatana-GAC
>>> Peter Green (Zhang Zuan)-NCUC
>>> Justine Chew- Individual
>>> Rudi Vansnick – NPOC
>>> Lindsay Hamilton Reid – RrSG
>>> Jennifer Chung – RySG
>>> Wen Zhai - NTAG
>>>  
>>> Apologies:
>>> Petter Rindforth – IPC
>>> Jim Galvin – SSAC
>>> Emily Taylor - RrSG
>>>  
>>> ICANN staff:
>>> Julie Hedlund
>>> Lars Hoffmann
>>> Amy Bivins
>>> Glen de Saint Gery
>>> Nathalie Peregrine
>>>  
>>> ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
>>>  
>>>  Wiki page:http://tinyurl.com/mpwxstx
>>>  
>>> Thank you.
>>> Kind regards,
>>>  
>>> Nathalie
>>> GNSO Secretariat
>>>  
>>> Adobe Chat Transcript for Thursday 11 September 2014:
>>>  Nathalie  Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the Translation and 
>>> Transliteration of Contact Information PDP Working group call on the 11th 
>>> September 2014
>>>   Jennifer Chung:Hello Nathalie and Julie!
>>>   Nathalie  Peregrine:Hello Jennifer!
>>>   Jennifer Chung:It looks a bit thin on the numbers right now?
>>>   Chris Dillon:Hello all
>>>   Jennifer Chung:Hello Chris
>>>   Rudi Vansnick:hello everyone
>>>   Julie Hedlund:@Chris: I've made you a host so you can move the document 
>>> on the screen.
>>>   Chris Dillon:Thanks
>>>   Peter Dernbach:Hell all.
>>>   Peter Dernbach:Hello all.
>>>   Wen Zhai:Good evening~
>>>   Chris Dillon:Good afternoon!
>>>   Wen Zhai::)
>>>   Nathalie  Peregrine:noted! for Emily Taylor
>>>   Justine Chew:@Chris: Yes, happy with your suggestion
>>>   Lindsay Hamilton-Reid:Apologies for being late.
>>>   Rudi Vansnick:are there any suggestions to add to the present document ?
>>>   Peter Dernbach:In Appendix B you refer to "registrars" but I think you 
>>> mean "registrants".
>>>   Peter Dernbach:"easier to contact registrars"
>>>   Rudi Vansnick:yes should be registrants in fact
>>>   Rudi Vansnick:end of paragraph 1
>>>   Peter Dernbach:and end of paragraph 2
>>>   Rudi Vansnick:could be both also !
>>>   Justine Chew:yes could be both
>>>   Justine Chew:@Rudi: +1
>>>   Justine Chew:Since we are making recommendations, perhaps mention it and 
>>> qualify if it is not within the WG scope?
>>>   Rudi Vansnick:thank you all
>>>   Jennifer Chung:Thank you Chris, thanks all.
>>>   Pitinan Kooarmornpatana:thanks all
>>>   Julie Hedlund:Thank you everyone!
>>>   Chris Dillon:Thank you.
>>>   Chris Dillon:We have some busy weeks coming up!
>>>  
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Emily Taylor
> MA(Cantab), MBA
> Director
> 
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