[gnso-igo-ingo] MP3 IGO-INGO Protections Policy Development Process (PDP) Working Group - 9 January 2013

[Julia Charvolen <julia.charvolen@xxxxxxxxx>]

Dear All,

 

The next call for the IGO-INGO Protections Policy Development Process (PDP) 
Working Group is scheduled on Wednesday 16 January at 19:00 UTC


Please find the MP3 recording of the IGO-INGO Protections Policy Development 
Process (PDP) Working Group  teleconference held on Wednesday 9 January 2013 at 
1900 UTC at:

http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-20130109-en.mp3


On page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/#jan

The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master 
Calendar page:

http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/

  

Participants:
Lanre Ajayi - NCA
Alain Berranger - NPOC
Jim Bikoff – IPC/IOC
Mason Cole - GNSO Council Vice Chair - RrSG
Avri Doria – NCSG
Elizabeth Finberg - RySG
Chuck Gomes – RySG
Alan Greenberg – ALAC
Catherine Gribbin - Red Cross
Robin Gross – NCSG
Stephane Hankins - NCSG
Wolfgang Kleinwaechter - NCSG
David Maher - RySG
Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC/IOC
David Opderbeck - IPC
Christopher Rassi - Red Cross
Thomas Rickert - NCA - Working group chair
Jonathan Robinson - GNSO Council Chair - RySG
Greg Shatan - IPC
Ken Stubbs - RySG
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit - ISO

Apologies:
Paul Diaz - RySG
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
Iliya Bazlyankov – RrSG
David Roache-Turner  WIPO


ICANN Staff:
Brian Peck
Berry Cobb
Julia Charvolen


** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Adobe Chat transcript  for 9 January 2013:
Berry Cobb:Welcome to the 9 JAN 2013 IGO-INGO Conference Call.
  Ken Stubbs:does this adobe room include audio ?
  Berry Cobb:Hi Ken.  No.  Audio is only on the teleconference bridge
  Ken Stubbs:just got off a 2 hr call with 25 people using the adobe audio 
system & it was wonderful and easy to use
  Ken Stubbs:claudia.. does iso refer to intl standards organization ?
  Alan Greenberg:@Ken. Less so in areas with bandwidth issues.
  avri:Ken, I agree, all GNSO call should have adobe audio enabled.
  avri:Alan: everybody does not need to use the abobe audio.
  Alan Greenberg:No. I wasn't arguing for not enabling it which I support. Just 
pointing out that it is not a perfect solution for all.
  avri:yes, it was a long wait on the bridge.  asnother reason for allowing 
adobe voice.
  avri:Alan, nothing is a perfect solution for all
  Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):It is our short name that refers to the 
International Organization for Standardization (in all language translations of 
our name).  In this way, it's not our acronym.
  Berry Cobb:David Roche-Turner also sent his apologies.
  Julia Charvolen 2:I will note that, thank you
  Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Completely agree.
  Ken Stubbs:avri +1
  Elizabeth Finberg:+1
  avri:But the WG is empowered to decide on the type of treaty that are relvant.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:The GAC rationale about why to use the Nairobi Treaty 
might shed some light on Claudia's concerns.  Not to say that we should be 
restrained by that analysis, but it may be helpful.
  Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Avri, that is my understanding as well. 
  Berry Cobb:Ken dropped from the call.
  Ken Stubbs:ken got knocked off the call
  Ken Stubbs:trying to get back in.
  Ken Stubbs:wish we had the audio enhancement adobe offers with this service
  Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):That's right.  ISO produced the very standard 
you are speaking about.
  Berry Cobb:v1.5.1
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I think the ongoing Trademark Clearinghouse negotiations 
speak volumes about the "ease" of amending RPMs
  avri:the TMCH is a new institution.  that is somewhat different.  In this 
case it was initially designed badly and is now undergoing redesign.  It will 
be ficed in finte time.  I would call that easy.
  avri:We know a lot is spent on defensive registrations.  We do not know that 
this is necessary expenditure.
  avri:We also only know about the enpense of defenisve registrations in a .com 
world, not in an environemtn with 1000s of domain names.  where no foo will 
care about  foo.bar
  Alan Greenberg:Blocking is not the only outcome that we may consider, but it 
is certainly the controversial issue.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Agreed Greg, especially considering the wealth of 
information produced in the IOC.RCRC DT on the issue.  We will contribute asap. 
  avri:I think it would be better if the Kiran entry in Adobe read IOC, since 
it seems to rarely be Kiran that is writing or speaking.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Actually Kiran is always typing and often speaking, thank 
you very much.
  avri:Also the fact that everyone did not particpate does not mean that does 
that did should be disparareged by those who disagree.
  avri:Kiran: it is hard to know.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:it's not necessary to distinguish since we both represent 
the IOC, and that's well known. 
  Greg Shatan:I took pains not to disaparage anybody, just to note accurately 
that it is one-sided.
  avri:The you sould sign in as IOC.  In WG, people are normally particpating 
as individuals.  Your case is different.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:thanks for your suggestion.  noted. 
  Alan Greenberg:@Stephane, problem is that this PDP and the chart are 
addressing far more than the RCRC and their legal protection bases are higly 
varied.
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:The composition of sub-work groups is an issue
  avri:people should be particpating in the subgroups  - i do't beleive anyone 
was excluded frmo any sub-group.  i even got stuck on one I did not remember 
volunteering for.
  avri:sub-groups have mailing lists?
  David Opderbeck:Agree with Alan -- see, e.g., information on U.S. limitations 
on IOC marks in the current NOTP spreadsheet
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:@avri - I agree and ability by anyone to send comments 
solves any bias generated by sub-group composition
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:...correction ...any possible bias...
  hankins:Thanks Alan... Indeed, I realise well that all cases are distinct and 
specific...
  Greg Shatan:I would agree that defensive registrations are one of the great 
scams of the internet.  One can't know which defensive registration is 
"necessary" and which are not.  Therefore, as a strategic matter, a 
rightsholder needs to acquire the unnecessary registrations along with the 
necessary ones.  If you have a building with 12 doors, and you want to secure 
your building, which doors do you leave unlocked?
  Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Sorry, I've dropped from the call.
  avri:Greg, but i would argue that paranoia, aka, covering all the possible 
doors and windows and crawlspaces, is not a good reason for special protection.
  avri:Should  I get police protection when I am afraid people will attack my 
home becasue i have something that I think someone might want to misappropraite?
  Elizabeth Finberg 2:+1
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:defensive registrations are a reality of the internet 
for all..... so special protection for none vs special protection for a few vs 
special protection for all... how will we ever know where the right balance is 
struck?
  Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Greg plus 1
  avri:If the percentage of money passed on is a criteria, what level of 
overhead do we accept before we say they aren't charity enough?
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:@Alan: +1 on evidence-based policy making
  Alan Greenberg:@chuck, yes, by "participation" I didn't just mean be on our 
calls. Contribution of data iwould be very helpful.
  Greg Shatan:I don't think it our job at all to make value judgments regarding 
whether an organization is "charitable enough"
  Alan Greenberg:@Greg, certainly we cannot make that call, but we could set 
such a criteria that would later be judged by others. If indeed that were a 
criteria that we felt was important.
  avri:But if we are going to say cost of defnesive registration is a reason 
becaue it stops them from being charitable, we should also take into account 
the degreet o which they spend money o first calss place seats or expesnive 
vacations for the leadership or other head wasteage.  Therfore picking a number 
could be reasonable.  There are criteria that say leass tha 90%, or less than 
80% etc is unacceptable.
  avri:Th money spent on defensive registration is only significant in a lean 
mean charity, not in a fat and happy organization.
  Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Completely agree with Greg.
  avri:Indeed, we need to protect the future registrants who are not 
represented here and who do not have lobbying groups.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Greg, on your point regarding the answers in the 
spreadsheet under IGOs, I took that information from their submission, I didn't 
make a independent judgment call
  Kiran Malancharuvil:For example, they note in their submission that the paris 
convention does not impose an obligation to enact speccific national laws
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:@Kiran: I suggest that the criterion "Possess 
International Legal Personality" be included as a qualifying criteria
  Alan Greenberg:@avri, agree with both of your last two comments.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Alain, thanks.  If you can send that suggestion, as well 
as filling out the relevant fields of the spreadsheet for that criteria, that 
would be most helpful
  Kiran Malancharuvil:there is a Qualification Criteria specific listserv
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:@avri and Alan: +1
  avri:Special protection happen at the expense of the possible registrants. 
who would also have a justifiable reason for registering the names people want 
blocked.
  Berry Cobb:Near the end of the call, I will brief the WG on how to provide 
feedback for each of the work packages.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I second Greg's comments about Thomas!  Well done Thomas!
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:@Kiran - will make my suggestion on the email list
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Thanks Alain
  Greg Shatan:I wan't saying it would stop them from being "charitable."  I 
aslo think it is way beyond our scope to start vetting IGOs orINGOs.  Guidestar 
and Charity Navigator are organizations that do nothing but that for US NFPs.
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:"Greg: +1
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I think the best we can do as a group is come up with 
objective criteria and allow organizations to take advantage of them or not as 
wanted/needed. 
  Claudia MacMaster Tamarit (ISO):Agree with Kiran.
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:Agree with Kiran
  avri:Gteg, my point was a conditional one.  If we are going to use expenses 
as a criteria, we need to use expenses in a fleshed out manner that includes 
overhead and the 5age of defnece expence as part of overhead etc...  what I 
object to is argument about how much X costs, with out the rest of the finacial 
analysis.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I would suggest moving this conversation to the list... 
it's very hard to review and discuss the merits of one criteria versus another 
on a call in which we only have 20 more minutes
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Thanks Berry for your work on this. 
  avri:Berry: can you send eahc of the lists a message so we know the address 
of the list?