[gnso-igo-ingo] MP3 IGO-INGO Protections Policy Development Process (PDP) Working Group - 16 January 2013

[Julia Charvolen <julia.charvolen@xxxxxxxxx>]

Dear All,


The next call for the IGO-INGO Protections Policy Development Process (PDP) 
Working Group is scheduled on Wednesday 23 January at 19:00 UTC


Please find the MP3 recording of the IGO-INGO Protections Policy Development 
Process (PDP) Working Group  teleconference held on Wednesday 16 January 2013 
at 1900 UTC at:

http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-20130116-en.mp3

On page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/#jan

The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master 
Calendar page:

http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/

 

Participants:
Wilson Abigaba - NCSG
Donna Austin - AuRegistry
Lanre Ajayi - NCA
Alain Berranger - NPOC
Jim Bikoff – IPC/IOC
Mason Cole - GNSO Council Vice Chair - RrSG
Avri Doria – NCSG
Elizabeth Finberg - RySG
Chuck Gomes – RySG
Alan Greenberg – ALAC
Robin Gross – NCSG
Stephane Hankins - NCSG
David Heasley - IPC/IOC
Wolfgang Kleinwaechter - NCSG
David Maher - RySG
Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC/IOC
David Opderbeck - IPC
Christopher Rassi - Red Cross
Thomas Rickert - NCA - Working group chair
Greg Shatan - IPC
Claudia MacMaster Tamarit - ISO
Mary Wong - NCUC

Apologies:
Iliya Bazlyankov – RrSG
David Roache-Turner  WIPO
Cintra Sooknanan - NPOC


ICANN Staff:
Berry Cobb
Brian Peck
Julia Charvolen


** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Adobe Chat transcript  for 16 January 2013:

  Berry Cobb:Welcome to the 16 JAN 2013 IGO-INGO Conference Call.
  Julia Charvolen:Jim Bikoff joined the meeting
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Hi Julia, apologies for being late, I am here, as is 
David Heasley
  Kiran Malancharuvil:thank you!
  Julia Charvolen:welcome, I will note that, thank you
  Mary Wong:I believe that NCSG plans to send a response shortly..
  Berry Cobb:Thank you Mary.
  Berry Cobb:and Thank you too, Greg.  :-)
  Avri Doria:some people argue for reservation with registration permission 
schemes that look very much like licensing schemes.  The case though, not all 
reservations are blocks.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:What do you mean by "licensing scheme" Avri?
  Avri Doria:the definiton of licensing schemes is broader than a chat.  Will 
blog on the theme.  but essentially can extend to direct money for permission 
interactions, to mutual backscratching, to a coincidental donation either pre 
or post permission.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:all of which would require the organization subject to 
reservations to be the gatekeeper, correct?
  Avri Doria:what do you mean by gatekeeper
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Also, insofar as it relates to the work of this group, we 
would advocate that you post to the list, so we can understand.  I don't follow 
any of your blogs, and would hate for it to get lost space.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Gatekeeper - the person in charge of giving the permission
  Avri Doria:if/when i blog on this topic i will send the list a url
  Kiran Malancharuvil:*lost in space
  Kiran Malancharuvil:great, thanks
  Avri Doria:i would think gatekeepr would have to extend to all who had a 
voice in the decsion.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:well... if you're suggesting that we would "license" the 
use of our name for money or favors
  Kiran Malancharuvil:we would be the sole decision maker in that
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I would think
  Kiran Malancharuvil:although if you take it out of the organizations hands, 
and develop a system similar to what the IOC/RCRC DT advocated on the top level
  Kiran Malancharuvil:then it would address your concerns
  Kiran Malancharuvil:and the IOC has never advocated for a licensing scheme
  Avri Doria:cool.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:and never will
  Avri Doria:I deffinately accept the notion of having all my concerns 
addressed.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:great.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Thomas, are you asking the IOC and the other 
organizations present to make a statement about why we think we need 
protections, even if it's just for exact matches?
  Kiran Malancharuvil:we got cut off
  Kiran Malancharuvil:We are dialing back in now, sorry for the interruption
  Thomas Rickert:thanks for the info
  Kiran Malancharuvil:back in
  Berry Cobb:Kiran, you are in the queue after Stephane.....
  Kiran Malancharuvil:great, thanks Berry.
  Elizabeth Finberg:so, if I understand correctly,  protection of the "emblems" 
protects the public good by ensuring safe passage and the delivery of 
humanitarian resources in armed conflict.   The protection of rthe reputation 
of the organization serves the organization (as opposed to the public good)?
  Kiran Malancharuvil:some of the laws that we cite expressly prohibit use on 
in the DNS
  Kiran Malancharuvil:also, I think we make these arguments on the sheet 
itself...over and over
  Kiran Malancharuvil:can we get specific questions about what part of our 
answers are unclear?
  Avri Doria:Can we differentiate what has happened in .com.org/net versus the 
other 18?
  Kiran Malancharuvil:yes.  it's on the watch reports.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:which are on the wiki
  Avri Doria:if anything, only the other 18 are relevant.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:why is that Avri?
  Avri Doria:becasue the first 3 of the incumbent have been around since the 
beginning of time and are in a case different from all added TLDs
  Avri Doria:becasue thee is a psychology that says registrint in one of the 
top 3 is far more significant than any of the  more recent gtlds.
  Elizabeth Finberg:@Jim, my point is not merely that we identify real harm, 
but what is "harm"  Is there empirical evidence of harm in the form of 
diversion of funds from the global public interest to legal fees.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I think that because it's so highly speculative how 
popular the new gTLDs will be, we should not make those kinds of judgments, but 
we will show you all incidents of cybersquatting that we record, and others as 
we can find them, if it helps.
  Avri Doria:we cannot compare what will happen in .gay with what what has 
happend in .com
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Are you saying that people wont be motivated to register 
in .gay?  Interesting position.
  Avri Doria:perhaps we can compare wit what has happend in .cat or .aero
  Avri Doria:cute trick Kieran,
  Avri Doria:the situation of community tld with a controlled population do not 
resemble .com/net/org and finacial arguments or the number of people who want 
to register is not  relevant
  Kiran Malancharuvil:"cute trick?"  Keep it respectful please, as we are both 
adults.
  Wolfgang:I am sorry but I have to leave in 5 minutes
  Kiran Malancharuvil:a genuine question... are you saying that cybersquatters 
are not motivated to register in gTLDs?
  Kiran Malancharuvil:that is an important question
  Avri Doria:i would argue that cmparisons even for non community tlds in the 
new batch do not match .com/net/org in terms. 
  Alain Berranger, NPOC:I need to step out for 5 minutes
  Avri Doria:n any case if you argument holds.  there should be no difference 
between the metric when applied to the 18 than there are in the full set of 21.
  Avri Doria:Kieren, I am saying that the level of motivation is less in the 18 
and will be even less in the 1000's to come.
  Avri Doria:i have not looked at the rate of sqautting in the new versu shte 
incumbent 3.  so am arguing on what i expect I would see.  As I say, if the 
rate are the same, then why the resistence to using just the 18.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I suggest not coming to any conclusions about how the new 
gTLDs will be received.  I think we should look at the incumbent 22.  However, 
like I said, we are always happy to provide whatever information you request, 
and we can pursue watch reports that include the "other 18" as well.
  Avri Doria:so it is 19 not 18.  i would be interested in seeing comparative 
rates as opposed to a single undiffientiated rate.  I  would also be interested 
in seeing the change rate.
  Greg Shatan:With apologies, I need to leave the call due to the press of 
business.
  Avri Doria:this group can recommend the criteria for worthiness
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I agree Alan.  Although I don't think that the 
communication from ALAC is necessarily consistent with that view.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:unless I'm misunderstanding...which is likely
  Avri Doria:in fact as alwasy both postive and negative criteria for 
worthiness would be a useful notion to explore.
  Berry Cobb:FYI, ICANN Board will be meeting 31 JAN to 2 FEB.  
https://myicann.org/calendar
  Chuck Gomes:Thanks Thomas