Re: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] Re: Request to the SCI - Vote switching

[Amr Elsadr <aelsadr@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,

I haven’t commented on this thread, mainly because I thought the discussion was 
headed in an agreeable direction.

I think Martin has raised an interesting point, and hope this issue doesn’t 
become a problem in the near or distant future. However, as noted by others, I 
don’t see this as an SCI issue. Since this isn’t a policy issue, I honestly 
don’t see this as something necessarily being within the scope of the GNSO 
Council either. Having said that, I don’t think it would be harmful for the 
council to discuss the issue. Ideally, this would have been picked up during 
the GNSO review, but should be individually tackled by the GNSO’s SGs/Cs.

Isn’t the Board SIC involved in the process of SG/C charter revisions as well? 
I tried searching for a process description, but couldn’t find one. May be 
helpful to reference that in any response we send Martin, if that is indeed the 
case. I seem to remember them being involved in the NCSG charter revision.

Thanks.

Amr

On Mar 9, 2015, at 9:11 PM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Dear Angie and everyone,
> 
> Thanks very much for the thoughtful comments – I think we are both saying 
> very similar things! Essentially, the BC (like all other GNSO SG/Cs) defines 
> its own charter and scope, which is one reason why (as well as more general 
> reasons having to do with the fundamental community consensus-based bottom-up 
> ICANN structure) staff suggested that this is an issue best determined by the 
> BC itself. This can include all the considerations mentioned by Angie, and 
> the BC may also decide it wishes to discuss the question with other GNSO 
> SG/Cs. As we also noted, to the extent that a substantial or discrete part 
> the GNSO community then believes a more uniform or coherent approach is 
> needed, either the BC or another GNSO SG/C can bring it up as part of the 
> ongoing GNSO Review - a point that was noted by Avri as something that can be 
> done through each SG/C’s representatives on the GNSO Working Party, including 
> the BC's. 
> 
> Anne has requested that staff draft a response to Martin and the BC, which we 
> propose to do along these lines. Although we do not think this is necessarily 
> the type of matter that the SCI Charter was intended to cover, nonetheless it 
> may be helpful to see if this is a shared SCI view. Please reply therefore if 
> you have an objection to the proposed approach. If none is received by 23:59 
> UTC on Wednesday 11 March, we will proceed as noted herein.
> 
> Thanks and cheers
> Mary
> 
> Mary Wong
> Senior Policy Director
> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)
> Telephone: +1 603 574 4892
> Email: mary.wong@xxxxxxxxx
> 
> 
> 
> From: Angie Graves <angie@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Monday, March 9, 2015 at 11:52
> To: Anne <AAikman@xxxxxxxxxx>, Mary Wong <mary.wong@xxxxxxxxx>, 
> "<gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>" <gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: Julie Hedlund <julie.hedlund@xxxxxxxxx>, Ron Andruff 
> <randruff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Fwd: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
> 
>> Dear Anne, Mary and SCI,
>> 
>> I am writing to share my thoughts with the SCI as a member of both the BC 
>> and the SCI.  If any of my thoughts expressed below conflict with Mary 
>> Wong's pending response, I defer to her.
>> 
>> I am inclined to think that I am speaking for more than just myself when I 
>> say that the SCI recognizes, too, the importance of this issue Martin has 
>> raised, and that we would like to be able to provide answers and resolution 
>> to the potential for abuse of voting rights.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, the SCI's charter directs us to consider GNSO Council 
>> processes and procedures and Working Group guidelines that have been 
>> identified either by the GNSO Council or a group chartered by the GNSO 
>> Council as needing discussion (e.g. a WG).  As the Business Constituency is 
>> one of the Constituencies within the Commercial Stakeholder Group (CSG) 
>> referred to in Article X.5 of the ICANN bylaws, and as the BC's charter 
>> review is not at the request of the GNSO Council, Martin's request lies 
>> outside of the SCI's scope.
>> 
>> I am available to talk about this issue with Martin and/or with the BC 
>> Charter Review Drafting Team, and maybe determine together the optimal way 
>> forward.  My suggestion is for the SCI to recommend that Martin raise this 
>> issue first inside the BC following the Drafting Team's completion of its 
>> first order of business--the charter review.  In seeking BC consensus on  
>> the issue, requests for outside review will be thoroughly considered by the 
>> constituency, ideas for mitigation will be collected, and the best path 
>> forward with the issue will be determined and agreed upon by the BC 
>> membership.
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Angie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: <martinsutton@xxxxxxxx>
>> Date: Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:26 AM
>> Subject: RE: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
>> To: "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" <AAikman@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Cc: Angie Graves <angie@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "<gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>" 
>> <gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>, Julie Hedlund <julie.hedlund@xxxxxxxxx>, 
>> Mary Wong <mary.wong@xxxxxxxxx>, Ron Andruff <randruff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Anne, 
>> 
>> Thank you for your helpful response and suggestion - all noted.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Martin 
>> Martin C SUTTON 
>> Manager, Group Fraud Risk & Intelligence 
>> Global Security & Fraud Risk
>> Level 8,1 Canada Square,Canary Wharf,London,E14 5AB,United Kingdom
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> Phone        +44 (0)207 991 8074
>> Mobile       +44 (0)777 4556680
>> Email        martinsutton@xxxxxxxx
>> Website      www.hsbc.com
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> Protect our environment - please only print this if you have to!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From:        "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" <AAikman@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To:        Martin C SUTTON/HGHQ/HSBC@HSBC
>> Cc:        'Mary Wong' <mary.wong@xxxxxxxxx>, Julie Hedlund 
>> <julie.hedlund@xxxxxxxxx>, "<gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>"        
>> <gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>, 'Ron Andruff' <randruff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, 
>> 'Angie Graves' <angie@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date:        07/03/2015 22:20
>> Subject:        RE: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Martin, 
>> Although SCI has not met, there has been some discussion on the list 
>> regarding your request on behalf of the BC Charter subteam.  
>>   
>> Staff (Mary Wong) is drafting a response to your request for SCI and will be 
>> circulating that response to SCI members for purposes of developing a 
>> consensus on the recommended approach for BC in this fact situation.  At 
>> present we have  no calls scheduled.  If SCI members are not in agreement 
>> with the approach described in the draft response that staff is preparing, 
>> we will likely need to schedule a call to discuss in more detail than 
>> achieved to date on the list.  In this regard, you may want to alert and 
>> brief the BC members of SCI as to this particular issue since, to my 
>> knowledge, neither one of the BC SCI appointees has commented in the 
>> discussion of this matter on the SCI list.
>> Thank you, 
>> Anne 
>>   
>>   
>>   
>>   
>>  
>> 
>> <ATT00001.gif>       Anne E. Aikman-Scalese, Of Counsel
>> Lewis Roca Rothgerber LLP |
>> One South Church Avenue Suite 700 | Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611
>> (T) 520.629.4428 | (F) 520.879.4725
>> AAikman@xxxxxxxxxx | www.LRRLaw.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>   
>> From: martinsutton@xxxxxxxx [mailto:martinsutton@xxxxxxxx] 
>> Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 9:17 AM
>> To: Aikman-Scalese, Anne
>> Subject: Re: Request to the SCI - Vote switching 
>>   
>> Dear Anne, 
>> 
>> As a follow-up, could you please let me know when the SCI is next due to 
>> meet/discuss the item raised below?  I just want to manage expectations with 
>> the BC Charter group, so an indicative time would be helpful. 
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Martin 
>> Martin C SUTTON 
>> Manager, Group Fraud Risk & Intelligence 
>> Global Security & Fraud Risk
>> Level 8,1 Canada Square,Canary Wharf,London,E14 5AB,United Kingdom
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> Phone        +44 (0)207 991 8074
>> Mobile       +44 (0)777 4556680
>> Email        martinsutton@xxxxxxxx
>> Website      www.hsbc.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> Protect our environment - please only print this if you have to!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From:        Martin C SUTTON/HGHQ/HSBC
>> To:        "Anne Aikman-Scalese" <AAikman@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date:        26/02/2015 23:21
>> Subject:        Re: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you Anne, much appreciated. 
>> 
>> Martin Sutton
>> Manager, Group Fraud Risk and Intelligence
>> Ph:  ++44 (0)20 7991 8074
>> Mob:  ++44 (0)777 4556680
>> Sent from my BlackBerry
>> 
>> *********************************
>> 
>> HSBC Holdings plc
>> Registered Office: 1 Canada Square, London E14 5AB, United Kingdom
>> Registered in England number 617987
>> 
>> *********************************
>> 
>>   From: "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" [AAikman@xxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: 26/02/2015 20:31 GMT
>> To: Martin C SUTTON
>> Subject: RE: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
>> 
>> Thanks Martin. I will bring this before SCI.
>> Anne 
>>  
>> 
>> <ATT00002.gif>       Anne E. Aikman-Scalese, Of Counsel
>> Lewis Roca Rothgerber LLP |
>> One South Church Avenue Suite 700 | Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611
>> (T) 520.629.4428 | (F) 520.879.4725
>> AAikman@xxxxxxxxxx | www.LRRLaw.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> From: martinsutton@xxxxxxxx [mailto:martinsutton@xxxxxxxx] 
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 12:30 PM
>> To: Aikman-Scalese, Anne
>> Subject: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
>>  
>> Dear Anne, 
>> 
>> I am a member of the Business Constituency and currently working with the BC 
>> Charter Review team.  During our recent discussions, we identified a 
>> potential issue that may affect GNSO Stakeholder Groups (SGs) and 
>> Constituencies (Cs) which may warrant the attention of the SCI, which I 
>> understand you currently chair.
>> 
>> With the introduction of New gTLDs, an increasing number of organisations 
>> now meet the criteria of membership within multiple groups, even across the 
>> contracting and non-contracting parties divide.  The point in question is in 
>> relation to the ability for a member of multiple SGs and Cs to regularly 
>> switch their voting rights between these groups in a tactical manner, so as 
>> to apply votes for elections/decisions where they may have concerns with 
>> lack of representation within a specific group, at a specific time. Whilst 
>> they may only vote in one of the SGs or Cs, there is no restriction as to 
>> when and how frequently they may switch their voting power between these 
>> groups.  This could be too flexible and potentially allow the system to be 
>> exploited.
>> 
>> I am pleased to say that there is no evidence that this is occurring but as 
>> new members continue to increase, it seems sensible to consider preventative 
>> measures be put in place to protect the GNSO for the future.  As an example, 
>> a multi-member organisation could be obliged to commit  holding it's voting 
>> rights within one group for a minimum term of 12 months before switching to 
>> another group.  Of course, this would need to be uniform across all of the 
>> SGs and Cs, hence, we think it is appropriate to raise this issue with the 
>> SCI for consideration.
>> 
>> I would be happy to discuss further and interested to know if you feel this 
>> would be appropriate and worthwhile for the SCI to assess.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Martin 
>> Martin C SUTTON 
>> Manager, Group Fraud Risk & Intelligence 
>> Global Security & Fraud Risk
>> Level 8,1 Canada Square,Canary Wharf,London,E14 5AB,United Kingdom
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>  
>> 
>> Phone        +44 (0)207 991 8074
>> Mobile       +44 (0)777 4556680
>> Email        martinsutton@xxxxxxxx
>> Website      www.hsbc.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> Protect our environment - please only print this if you have to!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
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>> Registered Office: 8 Canada Square, London E14 5HQ, United Kingdom
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> <ATT00001.gif><ATT00002.gif>