Just for the record, I think adding a Registrants option to the UDRP
would be just as mucked up as adding it here. In my humble opinion
this warrants an entirely new policy or none at all. We don't need to
reinvent the Rules....UDRPs Rules are great. Just create the Policy
itself, which is entirely TM focused and would be a beast to open up
to non-TM holders. J
Kristine
*From:*owner-gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx]
*On Behalf Of *Volker Greimann
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:09 AM
*To:* James M. Bladel; Mike O'Connor
*Cc:* gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Re: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of that sequence
of events i rattled off on the call just now -- registrant role in TDRP
Hi James,
excellent points there. I think the case with your example is that
this is not actually a case where a registrar is a party to the
dispute. Maybe it is a star witness required to provide the
information only it can provide, but not a party. Those roles are
better left to prior and current registrant.
This however begs the question if ICANN should implement another
process for registrants to solve their disputes, or if this may not be
better relegated to a future re-design of the UDRP? We could for
example make a recommendation that the UDRP be expanded to cover also
domain ownership issues in any future revision of that policy.
Best,
Volker
Good thoughts everyone. I think perhaps we should try to capture
the various scenarios in the "Reasons for Denial" area, where a
registrar can legitimately deny a registrant's request to initiate
a TDRP.
For example: if the Registrant believes that the identity of the
registrant is in question, or that they cannot substantiate that
they were ever the legitimate registrant (or Transfer Contact) for
the name pre-transfer. If its a scenario in which the registrar
has violated the IRTP, (or even the shiny new TDRP we're
developing), then that is a matter for Compliance and the
registrar's accreditation could be at-risk. But we should avoid
any process where a registrar is compelled to initiate a TDRP that
they believe is without merit, -and- be forced to pay for the
proceedings.
Thanks---
J.
*From: *Mike O'Connor <mike@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mike@xxxxxxxxxx>>
*Date: *Tuesday, December 3, 2013 at 10:09
*To: *Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Cc: *"gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx>"
<gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx>>
*Subject: *Re: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of that
sequence of events i rattled off on the call just now --
registrant role in TDRP
hi Volker,
i'm trying to remedy the situation where a registrar is either in
violation of the IRTP themselves (refusing to allow the registrant
to transfer out) or is presumptively denying the registrant due
process in a dispute between registrars. this was recognized as
an oversight in the policy back in the misty past when this series
of IRTP PDPs was launched.
i don't care how this happens. registrars are probably in the
best position to figure out the best way to get this done and i'm
happy to leave that discussion up to them. i like James' "put
pressure on Registrars to comply" approach since that seems like a
lighter/simpler one but i can live with anything that fixes that
problem. what i'm not keen on the idea of leaving registrants in
their current situation where these decisions get made "for them"
by registrars with no recourse for trapped registrants except
worldwide courts.
On Dec 3, 2013, at 9:51 AM, Volker Greimann
<vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Mike,
you are assuming that registrants should be beneficiaries of the
TDRP. They are not. Therefore a registrar not initiating a TDRP is
not blocking the registrants access as they do not have such an
access in the first place.
If you want to give the registrant a way to force a registrar to
initiate a proceeding against another registrar, that is another
story, but that way needs to include an obligation of the
registrant to pay the costs and a right of a registrar to charge
for this service (to cover the work needed to handle the process).
Volker
i think the key distinction i want to draw is with your
sentence "give registrants access to" the TDRP. that's not
the intent. the intent is to ensure that registrants are not
blocked from that process by their registrar. the hope here
is to provide an appeal mechanism in those cases where
registrar and registrant disagree on whether a TDRP is
warranted. but i'm fine setting the bar for that appeal
pretty high.
On Dec 2, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Volker Greimann
<vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
I still feel that giving registrants access to the TDRP
process dilutes its purpose as an inter-registrar dispute
process designed to deal with process violations and will turn
it into a transfer dispute process between registrants,
dragging registrars and registries into a civil conflict
between two parties. This will result in increased costs and
work for contracted parties.
If a registrar is violating transfer processes, there will be
sufficient incentive for affected registrars to call them out
and if necessary invoke the current process.
What we need to look at instead is if creating an alternate
process between registrant and former registrant regarding the
ownership of a domain name makes sense.
I am also a big fan of the line "He who wants to hear the
music should pay for the band!", i.e. if a registrant wants a
process to be invoked, he should be prepared to pony up the
fees, just as with the UDRP. Adding a "loser pays" clause
makes sense to me, but in that case it will remain the risk of
the complainant that the respondent cannot pay/is
unreachable/etc...
Volker
Provide the ability for the registrant to trigger the TDRP
process in cases when they disagree with their registrar
over an IRTP issue
·In general, registrars initiate TDRP when they can't
resolve matters between themselves
In the case of disagreement between registrar and
registrant as to whether to initiate a TDRP, provide a
path for the registrant to take the issue to Compliance
Build minimum documentation requirements for registrants
into the policy as a filter to prevent frivolous filings
If Compliance agrees with registrant, TDRP proceeds as
normal, with fees paid by registrars, as normal
If Compliance disagrees with registrant, that's it -- it's
off to court if the registrant wants to proceed.
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