Re: [gnso-pednr-dt] Ownership of domain names: some hard questions

["Michele Neylon :: Blacknight" <michele@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 10 Dec 2009, at 17:47, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:

> 
> 
> But how many Registrants really understand what they sign?

It is completely outside the remit of this WG or any WG to act as anyone's 
babysitter

If registrants don't understand what they are agreeing to, why don't they ask?

> And if I as
> a Registrant tell a Registrar in Chennai that I am not signing the
> agreement, would he register a domain for me?

Of course not, that's why you are free to choose a supplier you want (with over 
900 accreditations it's not as if anyone has a monopoly)


> Most of these agreements
> take advantage of the fact that few users read these agreements.

Unless you have analysed every single agreement out there you would be advised 
to retract that statement

> 
> It is all there in the agreement, but in fine print..

Either it's in the agreement or it's not.

Make up your mind


> So this PEDNR wg
> needs to work on getting ICANN to look into the clauses of a typical
> Registrar's agreement with the Registrant, and get the Registrars warn
> the Registrants in an understandable language what they are conceding
> to the Registrars.

Understandable to whom?

No matter how low you put the barrier it will never be low enough

And you seem to forget that agreements are legal documents. While it may be 
laudable to discuss clarity etc., your demands are completely unreasonable and 
unrealistic

> 
> It may be there in the contract, but that still does not make it a
> fair practice.

Define "fair practice"

I think it's fair and reasonable that a registrar get paid for the services 
they provide.

I think it's fair and reasonable that a registrar remind their registrants to 
renew their domains

I think it's fair and reasonable that having given registrants plenty of 
opportunity to do this that the registrant through their inaction has given up 
their rights to those names

The analogy I would use is that of property. If I lease / rent a property for a 
period of time and don't renew the lease the landlord is free to give the lease 
to someone else.

Why should domains be any different (assuming that there are no IP issues / 
serious crime involved)



> Essentially this WG needs to pay attention to the
> clauses for which a Registrant's signature is taken.


No it doesn't

If you feel that "all registrars" are so "terrible" then  why don't you setup a 
registrar that uses wonderfully clear English and get loads of business out of 
it as a result?

Or do you want all registrars to conform to some Utopian ideals and basically 
remove all essence of competition.

You also forget, conveniently, that not all law is the same. I am in Ireland, 
so I am governed by Irish and EU law. There may be some piece of law in place 
in Chile which gives people rights that I do not have here in Ireland. 
So would you expect registrars to cater for that?

And of course, if registrars were to raise their sale price (retail) of a .com 
domain for one year to say $500 in order to ensure that every possible 
potential registrant could be catered for and so that we could give them one to 
one sessions to explain any possibly confusing terms.

Unless you'd like our staff to work for free?


So to summarise: 

You are working on the false assumption that all registrars are evil and out to 
get registrants

Your demands are wholly unreasonable and unrealistic (and two can play at that 
game)

Regards

Michele

Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
http://www.blacknight.com/
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