Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Idea of Phasing

[Stéphane Van Gelder <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>]

I agree with Richard that there is no reason this group should base its work 
with the Board resolution.

The scenario this resolution puts forward is not the one that staff had been 
working on. Nor does it reflect preliminary discussions and opinions voiced 
within the drafting team.

I would suggest this group should feel free to explore whatever avenues it sees 
fit. That, to my understanding, is also the expectation of the Board. From its 
resolution (words underlined by me): "Resolved (2010.03.12.18), if a policy 
becomes available from the GNSO, and approved by the Board prior to the launch 
of the new gTLD program, that policy will be considered by the Board for 
adoption as part of the New gTLD Program."

Stéphane



Le 24 mars 2010 à 00:32, Richard Tindal a écrit :

> I actually find much in the Resolution I like.   Its strict interpretation 
> would mean that, for new TLDs,  many existing players could not participate 
> in the registry services business.  This would mean a tendency for the new 
> round to generate entirely new registry operators.  I can see how that would 
> foster the aim of greater competition.
> 
> In terms of a baseline I like the language in the MOBI and TEL contracts.  I 
> think they provide a balance of consumer protection along with flexibility 
> for specific operator circumstances.
> 
> RT  
> 
> 
> On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Richard and I know you don't want to concern yourself with the 
>> resolution because it is counter to the positions you have taken :)
>> 
>> But if we do not work from a basline that we all understand, and start 
>> suggesting policy from scratch, I do not see how we can get the full 
>> analysis, research, etc. done in a matter of weeks.  Even the STI group 
>> started with a baseline.  Without it we could have never accomplished what 
>> we did in the short amount of time.
>> 
>> So, what is the baseline we start with?  I am looking for help here from the 
>> group.  Where do we start?  
>> 
>> 
>> Jeffrey J. Neuman, Esq.
>> Vice President, Law & Policy
>> NeuStar, Inc.
>> Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Richard Tindal <richardtindal@xxxxxx>
>> To: Neuman, Jeff; Van Gelder Stéphane <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>; 
>> Roberto Gaetano <roberto@xxxxxxxxx>; Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx>; 
>> Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx <Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tue Mar 23 19:16:25 2010
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Idea of Phasing
>> 
>> Jeff,
>> 
>> I agree with Milton, George and others who suggested on the call we 
>> shouldn't concern ourselves too much with what the Board Resolution means.  
>> We've asked the questions,  let's not spend time now debating what the 
>> answers may be.   
>> 
>> If the Resolution can be interpreted in a way you believe is good (in the 
>> interests of registrants) then you should articulate that position to the 
>> WG.     You don't need Board clarification to suggest a policy you believe 
>> is right.
>> 
>> RT
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 23, 2010, at 4:48 PM, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Stephane,
>>> 
>>> Just one clarification.  You state:  "As the total separation solution is 
>>> probably the least palatable to most people ", I am not sure that all of us 
>>> agree that total separation is not palatable.  One of the problems is that 
>>> the Board's resolution was so fraught with ambiguity, that we really don't 
>>> understand what the Board really meant by total separation.  It is the same 
>>> issue we have with the existing contracts.  Each person has their own 
>>> interpretations about what the existing contracts state on this subject.  
>>> As the issue has never been litigated, we do not who is right, or if anyone 
>>> is right.  Hence, the reasons for the questions we drafted.  I know that 
>>> until I understand exactly what they Board meant in its resolution, I 
>>> cannot say that their resolution is not palatable and I believe there are 
>>> others who feel the same way.  I don't mean to beat this issue to death, 
>>> but there are a lot of assumptions being made.
>>> 
>>> Let me give you an example.  I am oversimplifying this example to make a 
>>> point, so please do not publish this on your blogs....
>>> 
>>> Neustar has a contract with an association of telecom carriers to 
>>> administer local number portability in North America.  The Federal 
>>> Communications Commission (a US govt agency) requires that Neustar, in this 
>>> role, must abide by a code of neutrality, meaning that we cannot be "owned" 
>>> by a telecommunications service provider nor can Neustar own a 
>>> Telecommunications Service Provider.  This has been interpreted through 
>>> regulation and contract to mean that Neustar may not own more than five 
>>> percent (5%) of a Telecommunications Service Provider, nor can a 
>>> Telecommunications Service Provider own more than five percent (5%) of 
>>> Neustar.  Moreover, no member of the Neustar Board may own more than five 
>>> percent (5%) of a Telecommunications Service Provider.  Ownership is 
>>> defined both by legal ownership as well as by control (by contract or 
>>> otherwise).  Thus, the FCC for this purpose, has accepted the fact that a 
>>> 5% or less ownership stake in either direction is de minimus enough to not!
>>> constitute any true ownership or control.  These rules were put into place 
>>> because the Telecommunications Service Providers did not want the entity 
>>> implementing number portability to also be a service provider because the 
>>> local number portability provider was receiving sensitive data from each of 
>>> the telecommunication service providers and did not want the local number 
>>> portability provider to be in a position to use that data to compete.  Even 
>>> with neutrality audits, equal access, non-discriminatory access, structural 
>>> separation, etc., that was not deemed enough for the telecom industry to 
>>> allow Neustar to be able to compete with the Telecommunication Service 
>>> Providers in the provision of telecom services.  We even have to enforce 
>>> these restrictions as a public company.
>>> 
>>> Now before people argue that the domain name system market is completely 
>>> different for X,Y and Z reasons (and they would be right), I just point out 
>>> this example to state that strict separation, depending on how it is 
>>> implemented, may be palatable for some.  Or it may not be.  That is what 
>>> this group, the ICANN community and the Board must decide.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman 
>>> Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] 
>>> On Behalf Of Stéphane Van Gelder
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:11 PM
>>> To: Roberto Gaetano
>>> Cc: 'Avri Doria'; Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Idea of Phasing
>>> 
>>> 
>>> My read of the Board resolution is that if this group does not produce 
>>> deliverables in time to include them in DAGv4 and final AG, then the Board 
>>> will go with its current total separation stance.
>>> 
>>> That to me is a clever way to 1) get all those people with strong and 
>>> diverse opinions on VI whom so far have found it impossible to agree on 
>>> anything to try and reach consensus and 2) make sure that if they don't, a 
>>> solution is there meaning that this overarching issue will no longer delay 
>>> the new gTLD program.
>>> 
>>> As the total separation solution is probably the least palatable to most 
>>> people, option 1 may stand a good chance.
>>> 
>>> One solution might be phasing, as long as it is as Avri suggests: i.e. we 
>>> work on a "quick solution" for round 1 and are able to leave certain issues 
>>> that we would find more complex to agree on aside for later policy 
>>> development.
>>> 
>>> Stéphane
>>> 
>>> Le 23 mars 2010 à 22:13, Roberto Gaetano a écrit :
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I am glad you are explaining in detail the phasing concept.
>>>> Seen this way, as a tool to get something done quickly ("getting the low
>>>> hanging fruits", for instance, but not limited to that), while not being
>>>> delayed by discussions on matters of principle, or just on more complicated
>>>> issues, it can be a good way to achieve results.
>>>> Of course, the question is then on what will be part of "release 1" and 
>>>> what
>>>> will be postponed, and whether "release 1" is still meaningful, i.e. 
>>>> whether
>>>> it has "enough fruits".
>>>> I assume that the role of the co-chairs might be relevant in shaping what 
>>>> is
>>>> in the scope of the first release, but I also hope that we will have
>>>> substantial support from the team.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Roberto
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx 
>>>>> [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 23 March 2010 19:08
>>>>> To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [gnso-vi-feb10] Idea of Phasing
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> As one of those who spoke in favor of phasing, let me explain myself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In any phasing, dealing with recommendations for the current 
>>>>> round should be phase I and should be completed as quickly as 
>>>>> possible without any deviations for side issues.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If, on the other hand there are more complicated issues that 
>>>>> we want to consider with relation to incumbent practice or 
>>>>> what would pertain in future rounds that is the stuff I would 
>>>>> recommend for a second phase.  Additionally, if for example 
>>>>> we decide on a set of practices that are ok for this current 
>>>>> round, but then decide that we want to consider what happens 
>>>>> when conditions change and the registry wants to change its 
>>>>> model , that is an issue I would defer to a second phase.  On 
>>>>> the other hand if we set a bunch conditions related to 
>>>>> co/cross ownership for new first round registries and want to 
>>>>> consider allowing an incumbent to adopt that model, that too 
>>>>> is something I would recommend pushing off to a later phase.  
>>>>> BTW, I would not be surprised in some of these hypothetical 
>>>>> issues required going back to the GNSO for a charter renewal 
>>>>> at some point (not recommending that for now).
>>>>> 
>>>>> In short I recommend phasing and the creation of a phase II 
>>>>> so that we have a place to put any issue that comes up that 
>>>>> does not immediately affect the current new gTLD process.  
>>>>> For all of the stuff related to this round - I hope we have  
>>>>> our recommendations in time for Brussels, if not before.
>>>>> 
>>>>> a.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>