Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Single Registrant TLDs in VIWG Brussels report

[Volker Greimann - Key-Systems GmbH <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Tim,

> I was simply replying to that with an example of how
> the registrar model has promoted competition and choice.
>   
> That is not an argument for or against VI/CO. And as I 
> have said many times, I am not against VI/CO. I am
> against jumping into it in an adhoc rush to appease 
> various business plans.
>   
If it were only to appease business plans, I would tend to agree with 
you. However, so far, the strict limitation proposals seem more like 
smoke-and-mirrors to appease the ICANN board without addressing any 
actual problems. I am afraid that the strict 15% limit on CO will 
effectively do the opposite of its intent, i.e. open the door to gaming, 
limiting competition.
I think there may be a cultural difference in play: While many Europeans 
believe in the power of a regulated free market, many Americans have 
recently experienced the dangers of an unregulated free market.
> IMO, we either need to put a hold on the rollout until
> these issues can be fully considered and the issues
> resolved, or take a conservative approach to get the 
> ball rolling and continue working with the goal of
> implementing any changes in future rounds. I prefer
> the latter, but would support either approach.
>   
I appreciate your cautious approach, but think that by that time the 
damage will be done. Just as I I have repeatedly heard some members 
voice the fear that a registry/registrar may save the most valuable 
domain names for itself, I expect the most interesting TLDs to be 
delegated in the first round. Effectively, I think this means that I 
would rather delay the rollout to allow us to design the system I 
suggested previously than go and agree on a proposal that is the lowest 
common denominator and restricts competition.
Volker

> Tim 
>  
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Single Registrant TLDs in VIWG Brussels
> report
> From: Stéphane_Van_Gelder <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wed, June 09, 2010 2:03 pm
> To: "Tim Ruiz" <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>
> I don't think you're making a fair point Tim. If we follow your logic,
> then the status quo should also have extended to first two rounds of new
> gTLDs, i.e. they shouldn't have happened. As you are taking a time when
> Netsol was sole supplier/distributor for .COM domains, why not also use
> as base a time when there weren't any .BIZ, .INFOs, etc.
>
> My point is the market has moved on a lot since then and trying to apply
> pre-1998 rules to the current market or situation doesn't seem to make
> sense.
>
> I don't think GoDaddy has a problem with there being no separation
> between ry/rr functions for .ME for example...
>
> Stéphane
>
> Le 9 juin 2010 à 20:24, Tim Ruiz a écrit :
>
>   
> > Prior to the separation of the ry/rr functions domain name registration
> > was $35/yr with a minimum two years required up front (probably higher
> > before that, I don't recall). Within less than 2 years after, you could
> > register domains at several registrars for less than $20/yr and as low
> > as $8.95, nearly 75% cheaper. And that was before the introduction of
> > any new gTLDs.
> >
> >
> > Tim 
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Single Registrant TLDs in VIWG Brussels
> > report
> > From: "Michael D. Palage" <michael@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Wed, June 09, 2010 12:46 pm
> > To: "'Richard Tindal'" <richardtindal@xxxxxx>,
> > <Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > Richard,
> >
> > Please refer to the following hypothetical from the original MMA
> > submission:
> > Research in Motion applies for a .RIM TLD. It is the intention of the
> > registry to provide every Blackberry device with a second level domain
> > corresponding to the Personal Identification Number (PIN) assigned to
> > each phone. Research in Motion proposes to register/maintain these
> > domain names directly in the registry database, and provide the end user
> > and their mobile service provider of choice an interface to
> > use/configure the domain name. Because these domain names are uniquely
> > linked to each phone and these domain names are non-transferable,
> > Research in Motion sees no value/utility in the use of ICANN accredited
> > registrars.
> > There are millions of Blackberry devices and Research in Motion could
> > not reserve all the names, and requiring them to use a registrar makes
> > little to no sense in eco-system when handset manufacturer work very
> > closely with the carriers who control the customer relationship. There
> > is no consumer protection or economic principle that anyone has been
> > able to demonstrate to me on how registrars promote competition or
> > choice. 
> >
> > If are we want to do is duplicate the name space with a bunch of .COM
> > want to be’s fine, adopt either the JN squared, RACK proposal ICANN
> > Board proposal. If you want to open the names space to true innovation
> > and choice with scalable enforcement mechanisms give CAM a read.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Richard Tindal
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 8:20 AM
> > To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Single Registrant TLDs in VIWG Brussels
> > report
> >
> >
> >
> > Jarkko/ Tero,
> >
> >
> > One of the options in my May 19 posting involves no cost or complexity. 
> > The desired names would simply be added to the registry contract
> > Schedule of Reserved Names.
> >
> >
> >
> > If ICANN staff said that option was not permitted (note: I do not know
> > why they would say that -- as registries currently reserve operational
> > names) then the incremental cost of registering 1,000 (say) names
> > through an unaffiliated registrar would be in the order of a few hundred
> > dollars per year. 
> >
> >
> > It is true this would mean reviewing the registrar's agreement --- but
> > your lawyers will spend at least that much time reviewing RAA provisions
> > if you become your own registrar. Plus, there are additional costs
> > operating as your own registrar.
> >
> >
> >
> > Overall, it seems you'll have more cost going down the path you want.
> >
> >
> >
> > I welcome push back on this -- but I'm not seeing a cost-based reason
> > for the exception you want.
> >
> >
> >
> > RT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 9, 2010, at 9:31 AM, jarkko.ruuska@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Richard,
> >
> >
> >
> > I fully agree with you that most of the things Single Registrant TLDs
> > would want to do could be addressed as you described.
> >
> > At the same time I agree with Tero that this would add unnecessary
> > complexity and cost. Either in the form of making more complicated
> > contract with ICANN or making the contract with possible registrars. And
> > for me it still doesn’t make any sense that registry would have to
> > sell names to registrar just buy them back with extra cost.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> > -jr
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > JARKKO RUUSKA
> >
> > Head of Internet Domain Initiatives
> > Compatibility and Industry Collaboration, Tampere, Finland
> >
> > Nokia Corporation
> > Tel: +358 50 324 7507
> > E-Mail: jarkko.ruuska@xxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ext Mustala, Tero
> > (NSN - FI/Espoo)
> > Sent: 8. kesäkuuta 2010 14:15
> > To: ext Richard Tindal; Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Single Registrant TLDs in VIWG Brussels
> > report
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > the requirement to use a separate registrar. As the number of 2nd level
> > names in a typical SRSU case is small, this is also no real business
> > opportunity to any registrar. It just adds costs to everybody.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > regards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tero
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tero Mustala 
> > Principal Consultant, 
> > CTO/Industry Environment 
> > Nokia Siemens Networks 
> > tero.mustala@xxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
> > From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ext Richard Tindal
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 12:46 PM
> > To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Single Registrant TLDs in VIWG Brussels
> > report
> > Hi Jarkko,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Further to this post --- 
> > http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-vi-feb10/msg01584.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What is it that SR Registries might want to do that isn't adequately
> > addressed by the current DAG contract?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 7, 2010, at 4:20 PM, jarkko.ruuska@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> > It is my observation that recently we haven’t really spent much time
> > on the Single Registrant TLDs. However, according to previous discussion
> > (and also according to the newest proposal matrix) it is evident that
> > Single Registrant TLDs could be vertically integrated and should not
> > need to use registrars. The exact conditions to that need a bit of
> > fine-tuning but are essentially available in the current proposals.
> >
> >
> > My understanding is that this is something almost everyone agrees on and
> > should therefore be noted in our Brussels report. I would even go a step
> > further and suggest that this is something we have a consensus on and it
> > should be part of our recommendation to be included in the final
> > Applicant Guidebook.
> >
> >
> > I also want to point out that Single Registrant TLDs should be noted as
> > an exception regardless whether we reach a consensus about the
> > cross-ownership in general.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > -jr
> >
> >
> > JARKKO RUUSKA
> >
> >
> > Head of Internet Domain Initiatives
> > Compatibility and Industry Collaboration, Tampere, Finland
> >
> >
> > Nokia Corporation
> > Tel: +358 50 324 7507
> > E-Mail: jarkko.ruuska@xxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >     
>
>   

--
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Volker A. Greimann
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