RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] vertical relationships in the domain name mkt

["Neuman, Jeff" <Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx>]

But in each of those examples, the wholesale can (and does) discriminate 
amongst resellers.  Apple has no obligation to treat every reseller equitably 
and in most of those situations the accreditation is done by the wholesaler 
itself as opposed to a third party entity like an ICANN.  Apple decides who it 
wants to resell and how.  It sets the pricing as it sees fit and offers 
incentives to certain resellers but not others.

I don't mean to create the wrong impression.  I am NOT against registrars.  I 
am not against equitable access and non-discrimination.  But what I do not want 
to keep hearing is that there are registrars on this list asking for us to be 
more like the real world allowing registrars to become registries and 
distributing in their own TLDs, but also requiring something you don't see in 
the real world in most industries, not only a requirement to use accredited 
registrars (accredited by a third party) and also providing them with 
completely equal access.

Which one is it?  Do you want the real world where registries can distribute in 
their own TLDs, subject only to law and only applying restrictions if there is 
market power, or do you want to be in ICANN land where there is structural 
separation and a requirement to use registrars, treat them all equally (subject 
to limited exceptions).  Unfortunately some want to have their cake and eat it 
too.

Jeffrey J. Neuman
Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy

________________________________
The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the use 
of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information. If you are not the intended recipient you have received this 
e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying 
of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication 
in error, please notify us immediately and delete the original message.


From: Stéphane Van Gelder [mailto:stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 11:19 AM
To: Neuman, Jeff
Cc: Hammock, Statton; Milton L Mueller; Jothan Frakes; 
vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] vertical relationships in the domain name mkt

Jeff,

Where's this "real world" thingy you keep referring to? There are plenty of 
examples of other industries where use of an accredited (and therefore quality 
checked) reseller network is compulsory. For reasons of quality control for 
example, or even abuse and scam control. Luxury cars and watches are just 2 
examples. Apple computers is another.

Stéphane
Le 8 juil. 2010 à 14:54, Neuman, Jeff a écrit :


Statton & Milton,

If we were to consider the "real world", then we would also have to ask the 
question as to whether there should ever be a requirement to use 
ICANN-Accredited Registrars in the first place.  In the real world an entity 
can choose whether or not to have resellers, and if it does choose to have 
resellers, it can treat them all differently as it sees fit.  There is no 
concept of equal access among resellers.  In fact, how many of the registrars 
on this list either choose to have resellers (or not) and if you do choose to 
have them, how many of them choose to treat all of their resellers equally.

So while I like looking to the real world for some examples, if we are using 
the "real world" as our guide, we cannot pick and choose which parts of the 
real world we like and which we do not and choose to only apply the ones we 
like.  By definition, that takes us back out of the real world and back into 
ICANN land.



Jeffrey J. Neuman
Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy


________________________________
The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the use 
of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information. If you are not the intended recipient you have received this 
e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying 
of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication 
in error, please notify us immediately and delete the original message.


From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx> 
[mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hammock, Statton
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:21 AM
To: Milton L Mueller; Jothan Frakes; 
vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] vertical relationships in the domain name mkt

Thank you Milton for using the cereal analogy. I think it's a good one and we 
all should stop and consider what usually happens in "real life" or ("business 
life," whatever) when we think about and discuss aspects of selling and 
distributing new gTLDs.

Statton

 Statton Hammock
 Sr. Director, Law, Policy & Business Affairs
[http://www.networksolutionsretail.com/signature/netsollogo09.gif]

P 703-668-5515  M 
703-624-5031www.networksolutions.com<http://www.networksolutions.com>


From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx> 
[mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 12:28 AM
To: Jothan Frakes; vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [gnso-vi-feb10] vertical relationships in the domain name mkt

Response to Jothan:

OK, now to focus on the response.
**** 1]  What I am saying is that this 'not in your own TLD'  exception is 
essentially the same as 100%.

I am beginning to find this argument persuasive. But you can also see, do you 
not, that this argument applies just as strongly to arbitrary ownership 
limitations, doesn't it? In other words if you can't enforce "not in your own 
TLD" you also can't enforce some specific ownership limitation such as 15%. 
Q.E.D.

**** 3] What I am saying it is *not* in the public interest if GoDaddy (or 
Key-Systems or swap in any other respected registrar) is *not* able to sell 
.WEB names.    It would be, however, in the interest of the .COM operator if 
.WEB is competitively restrained in that way.  Of course, VeriSign hasn't 
officially taken any stance on VI yet --  but as they know big registrars want 
TLDs my hunch is they'll come out in favor of JN2.    No criticism of them 
there - it would be in VeriSign's corporate interest to see new TLDs 
competitively restrained in that manner.

We keep talking as if this were a unique problem to the domain name industry. 
It isn't. Think of grocery stores (let's say, Wegmans). A major grocery chain 
such as Wegmans will sell numerous branded food products (e.g., breakfast 
cereals) such as Cheerios and Chex. It may also sell its own in-house brand 
(say, the Wegman's version of Cheerios).

General Mills may choose to withhold Cheerios from Wegman's because Wegman's 
sells its own, competing version of breakfast cereal. Or it may not. 
Conversely, Wegman's may choose not to carry Cheerios because they "undermine" 
the market for its own in-house cereal. Or it may not.

What we find in reality is that in most cases a big grocery chain will carry a 
lot of brands and its own brands both. It profits more from serving a larger 
market. But many, many smaller ones don't have their own brands and serve as 
pure retail intermediaries. And in a very few specialized cases, a purely 
vertically integrated food suppliers may carry nothing but their own brands.

These are business choices. As long as the market for breakfast cereals and 
grocery stores is reasonably competitive, no centralized regulator needs to 
dictate which of these choices market players make, nor do consumers need them 
to make those choices for them. Same is true of the DNS market.

So you haven't made a public interest case for your position. You are not 
thinking about what leads to the most competitive, robust and open domain name 
industry. You are, instead, still thinking: "how can I as a prospective 
registry operator use ICANN regulations to ensure that my product is guaranteed 
shelf space in every grocery store."

I suggest you stop thinking about how to use ICANN to "guarantee" your product 
this or that. I suggest that you, and everyone else, start thinking about how 
to compete and produce value to consumers.

Let's not complicate the issue with two choices that are so similar as to be 
the same thing.     Let's just call this 'not in your own TLD' exception what 
it really is --- Free Trade -- and one can continue to eloquently argue for the 
Free Trade choice.

That's pretty much the direction I'm headed
--MM