RE: Astoundingly off-topic [gnso-vi-feb10] Revised motion for the Council

[Tim Ruiz <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Mike, not sure what you are talking about. I have read and reread both
my and Jeff's comments and don't see anything close to staff-bashing.   
    


Tim

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Astoundingly off-topic [gnso-vi-feb10] Revised motion for
> the Council
> From: "Mike O'Connor" <mike@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Thu, August 19, 2010 9:13 am
> To: "Neuman, Jeff" <Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: "tim@xxxxxxxxxxx" <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Roberto Gaetano
> <roberto@xxxxxxxxx>,        "owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx"
> <owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>,        "Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx"
> <Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
> 
> 
>    just one note.  before beating
>    up the staff, please check to
>    see if a certain Junior
>    Co-Chair asked the staff to
>    steer away from that issue (as
>    was the case here).  i do
>    heartily wish we could get out
>    of the habit of staff-bashing.
>    mikey
>    On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:15 AM,
>    Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>    From my own personal
>    standpoint, I agree with Tim.
>    It frankly surprises me how we
>    (the ICANN Community) are
>    consistently making up the
>    rules as we go and that is not
>    just a commentary on this
>    group or the Council, but
>    starts at the top.   I think
>    Tim and I are saying the same
>    thing, which is that we are
>    NOT saying the board cant read
>    it or that it shouldnt read
>    it.  In fact, many of them may
>    have already seen it and I am
>    sure ICANN staff will send it
>    to them on their mailing list
>    as well to read for their
>    retreat.   I am sure the ICANN
>    staff would also include it in
>    the Boards briefing papers
>    regardless of whether or not
>    the GNSO passed a motion.  It
>    should also not go unnoticed
>    that ICANN staff is unwilling
>    into put into the motion that
>    the ICANN Board requested this
>    input for their retreat.  It
>    is clear to most in the VI
>    Group that this information
>    was requested (although NOT in
>    a board motion).  That was
>    consistently the message from
>    the Chairs of this group and I
>    know from personal
>    conversations with some Board
>    members that this is the case
>    as well.
>    The fact that ICANN staff does
>    not want to see this in a GNSO
>    Council should be a signal to
>    those on the Council and the
>    Community how seriously the
>    Staff/Board takes the precise
>    wording of motions and perhaps
>    we (as a community and the
>    Council) should do the same.
>    The ONLY thing we are saying
>    is that it is NOT the role of
>    the GNSO Council to take any
>    sort of a formal action with
>    an incomplete PDP.  Nothing is
>    preventing the GNSO from
>    presenting a status report on
>    the activities of any or all
>    of its work groups.  Just like
>    the GNSO Council does not pass
>    a resolution every time the
>    GNSO Chair gives a status
>    report at a face to face ICANN
>    meeting, the GNSO Council
>    should not have to pass a
>    formal resolution to give this
>    status report.
> 
>    Jeffrey J. Neuman
>    Neustar, Inc. / Vice
>    President, Law & Policy
>    ______________________________
>    The information contained in
>    this e-mail message is
>    intended only for the use of
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>    and may contain confidential
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>    If you are not the intended
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>    immediately and delete the
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> 
>    From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@ican
>    n.org [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-fe
>    b10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
>    Of tim@xxxxxxxxxxx
>    Sent: Thursday, August 19,
>    2010 7:31 AM
>    To: Roberto
>    Gaetano; owner-gnso-vi-feb10@i
>    cann.org; Gnso-vi-feb10@icann.
>    org
>    Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    The point is the interim
>    report is not forwarded to the
>    board. You can make fun of me
>    if you like, but the PDP
>    serves an important purpose
>    and the process should be
>    followed.
>    That doesn't mean they cannot
>    read the interim report and
>    they can certainly discuss it
>    during their retreat.
>    Tim
>    Sent from my Verizon Wireless
>    BlackBerry
>    ______________________________
>    From: "Roberto Gaetano"
>    <roberto@xxxxxxxxx>
>    Sender: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@ic
>    ann.org
>    Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010
>    07:22:40 +0200
>    To: <Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
>    Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    To include little footnotes is
>    not explicitely part of the
>    charter of this WG and not
>    provided for in the PDP J
>    R.
>    ______________________________
>    From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@ican
>    n.org [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-fe
>    b10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
>    Of Michael D. Palage
>    Sent: Thursday, 19 August 2010
>    00:18
>    To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>    Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    Hello All,
> 
>    Perhaps what is ever
>    communication is sent to the
>    Board could include a little
>    footnote that there was even a
>    lack of consensus within the
>    VI on how to forward the
>    report to the Board J
> 
>    Best regards,
> 
>    Michael
> 
>    From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@ican
>    n.org [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-fe
>    b10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
>    Of Gomes, Chuck
>    Sent: Wednesday, August 18,
>    2010 6:07 PM
>    To: tim@xxxxxxxxxxx; Stéphane
>    Van Gelder
>    Cc: Neuman,Jeff; avri@xxxxxxx;
>     Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>    Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
> 
>    So we shouldnt do anything
>    that is not specifically
>    provided for?  That would
>    require the PDP process to
>    include every conceivable
>    action or require the Council
>    to act on a motion if it is
>    not specifically provided for.
> 
>    Chuck
> 
>    From: tim@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>    tim@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>    Sent: Wednesday, August 18,
>    2010 4:56 PM
>    To: Gomes, Chuck; Stéphane Van
>    Gelder
>    Cc: Neuman,Jeff; avri@xxxxxxx;
>     Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>    Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    Actually it's the other way
>    around. Show me in the PDP
>    process where taking action
>    like this on an interim report
>    is provided for. It isn't, and
>    I think for good reason.
>    Tim
>    Sent from my Verizon Wireless
>    BlackBerry
>    ______________________________
>    From: "Gomes, Chuck"
>    <cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>    Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010
>    15:21:50 -0400
>    To: <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>    St�©phane Van
>    Gelder<stephane.vangelder@indo
>    m.com>
>    Cc: Neuman,Jeff<Jeff.Neuman@ne
>    ustar.us>; <avri@xxxxxxx>;
>    <Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
>    Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    I have looked at it very
>    closely Tim, many times.
>    Please point me to anything in
>    the Bylaws that supports your
>    opinion.
>    Chuck
>    From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@ican
>    n.org [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-fe
>    b10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
>    Of tim@xxxxxxxxxxx
>    Sent: Wednesday, August 18,
>    2010 1:36 PM
>    To: Stéphane Van Gelder
>    Cc: Neuman,Jeff; 'avri@xxxxxxx
>    '; 'Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx'
>    Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    In a word, no. Please review
>    the PDP process in the bylaws.
>    Tim
>    Sent from my Verizon Wireless
>    BlackBerry
>    ______________________________
>    From: Stéphane Van Gelder
>    <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>
>    Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010
>    19:18:08 +0200
>    To: <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>    Cc: Neuman,Jeff<Jeff.Neuman@ne
>    ustar.us>; 'avri@xxxxxxx'<avri
>    @acm.org>; 'Gnso-vi-feb10@ican
>    n.org'<Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>    >
>    Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    I understand that Tim. And as
>    the entity that commissioned
>    the VI WG, isn't the Council
>    able to pass on information to
>    the Board that has been
>    officially sent to it by the
>    WG?
>    Stéphane
>    Le 18 août 2010 à 
>    18:34, tim@xxxxxxxxxxx a écrit
>    :
> 
>    Stephane, that simply is not
>    true. The VI is a formal PDP
>    WG. There is a process to
>    follow and Council is
>    responsible for manging that
>    process, not taking liberties
>    with it.
>    Tim
>    Sent from my Verizon Wireless
>    BlackBerry
>    ______________________________
>    From: Stéphane Van Gelder
>    <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>
>    Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010
>    18:14:49 +0200
>    To: Tim Ruiz<tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>    Cc: Neuman,Jeff<Jeff.Neuman@ne
>    ustar.us>; 'avri@xxxxxxx'<avri
>    @acm.org>; 'Gnso-vi-feb10@ican
>    n.org'<Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>    >
>    Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    I agree with Avri that it is
>    the Council's prerogative to
>    send information to the Board
>    when it deems it necessary.
>    I agree with Jeff that the
>    wording of the motion should
>    make it clear that this is an
>    interim report being sent for
>    information purposes while the
>    WG continues its work.
>    As such, the currently
>    redrafted motion looks fine to
>    me.
>    Stéphane
>    Le 17 août 2010 à 19:32, Tim
>    Ruiz a écrit :
> 
>    I agree with Jeff. And even if
>    the Board requested that we do
>    this, I would first want to
>    clearly understand why it did
>    so. It is not needed for the
>    Board to review the interim
>    report, so if they requested
>    this then they have some other
>    reason in mind.
>    Tim
> 
>    -------- Original Message
>    --------
>    Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    From: "Neuman, Jeff"
>    <Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx>
>    Date: Mon, August 16, 2010
>    7:24 pm
>    To: "'avri@xxxxxxx'"
>    <avri@xxxxxxx>,
>    "'Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx'"
>    <Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
>    Avri - I don't understand your
>    arguments.
>    But, I do not believe that the
>    Council should get in the
>    habit of formally submitting
>    interim reports to the Board.
>    That is a formal action under
>    the pdp process in the bylaws
>    (the act of forwarding
>    something to the board).
>    All I am asking as the
>    insertion of the concept of
>    this being sent in response to
>    a board request and that this
>    is not a finished product.
>    I really don't understand why
>    you believe that is a
>    controversial request.
>    Jeffrey J. Neuman, Esq.
>    Vice President, Law & Policy
>    NeuStar, Inc.
>    Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxxx
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@ican
>    n.org <owner-gnso-vi-feb10@ica
>    nn.org>
>    To: gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx <G
>    nso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
>    Sent: Mon Aug 16 19:53:03 2010
>    Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    Hi,
>    But aren't you trying to
>    establish a precedent that the
>    GNSO Council may not send
>    status updates to the Board
>    when it thinks it should? I
>    think that is a bad precedent.
>    Sending updates seems to me to
>    fall well within the
>    prerogatives of a manager of
>    the process. they have the
>    right, in fact responsibility,
>    to communicate whatever they
>    feel needs to be communicated
>    as long as they don't mislead
>    anyone about the status of a
>    group or its efforts.
>    I recommend leaving the motion
>    as is.
>    a.
>    They really appreciate the
>    efforts of every member of the
>    group? hmmm.
>    On 16 Aug 2010, at 19:23,
>    Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>    > Thanks Mikey. This is a lot
>    better than the original. One
>    thing I would like to see here
>    for purpose of posterity and
>    so this does not establish bad
>    precedent is a WHEREAS clause
>    the recognizes that this is
>    being forwarded to the Board
>    in response to a request from
>    the Board to do so (even if
>    such request was informal).
>    You can add it to an already
>    existing WHEREAS clause, but
>    it should be in there that
>    this is not the GNSO Council
>    doing this on its own, but
>    rather is in response to a
>    Board request.
>    >
>    > I would also like to reword
>    one of the resolutions to
>    include the following concept:
>    >
>    > RESOLVED FURTHER, that the
>    Council hereby agrees to
>    forward the Revised Initial
>    Report to the ICANN Board as a
>    snapshot of the current state
>    of the ongoing deliberations
>    of the VI Working Group with
>    the understanding that the VI
>    Working Group will continue to
>    work through these issues to
>    attempt to produce concrete
>    recommendations in a final
>    report.
>    >
>    > I am not wedded to the
>    words, but rather would hope
>    that the concept is captured.
>    >
>    > Thanks.
>    >
>    > Jeffrey J. Neuman
>    > Neustar, Inc. / Vice
>    President, Law & Policy
>    >
>    > The information contained in
>    this e-mail message is
>    intended only for the use of
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>    and may contain confidential
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>    If you are not the intended
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>    this e-mail message in error
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>    >
>    >
>    From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@ican
>    n.org [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-fe
>    b10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>    Mike O'Connor
>    > Sent: Monday, August 16,
>    2010 7:02 PM
>    > To: gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>    > Subject: [gnso-vi-feb10]
>    Revised motion for the Council
>    >
>    > hi all,
>    >
>    > Margie and i have revised
>    the motion based on the
>    conversation during today's
>    call. see if this works for
>    you...
>    >
>    > Motion to Forward the
>    Revised Initial Report on the
>    Vertical Integration PDP to
>    the ICANN Board.
>    > Whereas, on 28 January 2010,
>    the GNSO Council approved a
>    policy development process
>    (PDP) on the topic of vertical
>    integration between registries
>    and registrars;
>    > Whereas the VI Working Group
>    has produced its Revised
>    Initial Report and has
>    presented it to the GNSO
>    Council on 18 August; and,
>    >
>    > Whereas, the GNSO Council
>    recognizes that the Revised
>    Initial Report does not
>    include any recommendations
>    that have achieved a consensus
>    within the VI Working Group,
>    and instead reflects the
>    current state of the work of
>    the VI Working Group;
>    >
>    > Whereas, the GNSO Council
>    has reviewed the Revised
>    Initial Report, and desires to
>    forward the Revised Initial
>    Report to the ICANN Board;
>    > NOW THEREFORE, BE IT:
>    >
>    > RESOLVED, that the GNSO
>    Council appreciates the hard
>    work and tremendous effort
>    shown by each member of the VI
>    PDP working group in
>    developing the Revised Initial
>    Report on an expedited basis;
>    >
>    > RESOLVED FURTHER, that the
>    Council hereby agrees to
>    forward the Revised Initial
>    Report to the ICANN Board as a
>    snapshot of the current state
>    of the ongoing deliberations
>    of the VI Working Group;
>    > RESOLVED FURTHER, that this
>    resolution is not an
>    endorsement or approval by the
>    GNSO Council of the contents
>    of the Revised Initial Report
>    at this time;
>    >
>    > RESOLVED FURTHER, that the
>    GNSO Council directs Staff to
>    make the appropriate
>    notifications to the ICANN
>    Secretary and to the
>    community.
>    >
>    > thanks,
>    >
>    > mikey
>    >
>    > - - - - - - - - -
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> 
>    - - - - - - - - -
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