[npoc] Re: Info Request and Update --GNSO NCPH January 2013 Inter-Sessional Planning - Traveler Info Requested

[Alain Berranger <alain.berranger@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi and thanks Bill,

Of course, I agree that ICANN is not about ICT4D.
I'm not sure we face a policy making vs ICT4D issue... Rather, NPOC's
perspective is more about a broader view of what GNSO can do in the quickly
evolving IG scene... so inclusion, equity and opportunity in the Global
South come from ICT4D yes, but can also come from IG work... Of all people,
you would know that in spades!

Yes we may have time to discuss in LA, but it will be a very low priority
for us... we like to do a bit more than just listen to old tunes from the
old timers who know it all, you see, so not sure the NPOC reps will that
interested - we have to build capacity in NPOC for outreach, dissemination,
communications and advocacy and to do that we need to invest loads of
precious time to go through the hoops of NCSG membership apllication in
order to bring in new blood into NPOC to do all these things, which has
turned out to be a recurring nightmare, a barrier to entry in fact and a
very inefficient process; Also, we will look at the pros and cons of
initiating a quick NCSG Charter modification process. If not doable - which
is most likely - we will patiently await the GNSO Review.

Cheers, Alain

On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 11:03 PM, William Drake <william.drake@xxxxxx> wrote:

>
>
> On Dec 6, 2012, at 23:11, Alain Berranger <alain.berranger@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> Hello from Salaberry-de-Valleyfield,
>
> 1) Nobody is saying the GNSO Councilors shouldn't be there, they should be
> there...
>
>
> That is actually what you said.  We can read.
>
> That said, it is desirable in my vieww to attain parity of participants
> per SG *AND* parity of participants per Cy within SG.
>
>
> With contradicts your prior sentence and seems to reflect a continuing
> non-acceptance of the NCSG charter, under which Councilors are elected by
> and represent the whole SG.
>
> You obviously favor or are satisfied with SG parity ONLY, and why wouldn't
> you the business as usual scenario?
>
>
> BAU = democratic processes followed
>
> But NPOC is now a reality of the NCSG and we value Cy parity within an SG.
>
> Can we please A2D on this for reason of practicality as I see no
> flexibility on either side of the issue ever since NPOC was created and do
> not expect movement on this?
>
>
> We worked hard on the charter before you came and are loathe to toss it
> overboard now to suit you, yes.
>
> Do you? Bill, as future NCSG-EC Chair, you might as well get used to that
> reality right away...
>
>
> Believe me I am
>
> Frankly, what I do not appreciate is the thinking that would claim that
> "parity" of any kind will be attained if NCUC has 14 representatives and
> NPOC only 6! That's not parity, that's imbalance!
>
>
> And bad math
>
>
> 2) Secon point I want to make: the finality of a Cy or a SG for that
> matter is not to only produce policy for the GNSO, that's it that's all.
>
>
> Here we do disagree.  I believe the purpose of organizing noncomm
> interests in the GNSO is in fact to advance nommcomm interest in the GNSO,
> Consistent with the by laws.  It is not to just be an a generic outreach
> and capacity building activity for Internet matters generally.  There are
> other venues for that, related eg to the IGF.  the summer schools, Diplo,
> GigaNet, etc etc...
>
> What is needed her is actual engagement on GNSO issues and processes.
>  That's how groups build street cred and get taken seriously; just
> demanding to be given stuff does not have the same effect.  Participate,
> make a difference, then over time people will vote for you for Council if
> that's your fixation.  Don't and they won't, simple as that.
>
> Policy making from the base is most important of course, even critical.
> However, I think the mission of a Cy/SG also includes, or can include or
> should include: training, dissemination, advocacy and any form you think
> outreach can take... and if the NCSG Charter does not allow that, then
> let's change the Charter. We also have to promote inclusion, we have to
> contribute to eradicating the digital divide, we have to fight for ICT4Ds
> and poverty reduction,
>
>
> In GNSO?  It's not an ICT4D group, not its mission.
>
> we have to fight for an inclusive and resilient internet governance...
> that too is worth flying around the world to discuss. ICANN is at a
> cross-roads - you in Dubai now know more than the rest of us watching at a
> distance... how ICANN global outreach efforts by the NCHP contribute to
> ICANN's continued relevance is as worthy of discussion as policy making.
>
>
> I'm afraid we have fundamentally different concepts of the purpose of
> participating in GNSO and ICANN.  Maybe that needs to be discussed in LA...
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 3:42 AM, William Drake <william.drake@xxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> Hello from Dubai
>>
>> I proposed adding the Councilors in order to equalize the number of
>> participants per SG on 9 October.  Multiple messages have been exchanged on
>> the thread since then, and nobody questioned the concept of having our SG
>> wide elected representatives there until now.  So why days after names were
>> to be submitted (and the Councilors have confirmed their availability) are
>> we now hearing that there's a problem with them participating? The time to
>> do this, for whatever reason, would have been earlier.
>>
>> On the substantive merits: If, as the strawman agenda suggests, this is
>> intended to be a meeting on NCPH engagement in GNSO processes and NCPH
>> perspectives on GNSO issues, it would make sense to have our SG represented
>> by the people who represent us in GNSO Council processes and are most
>> closely engaged with the issues.  That would be a meeting worth flying
>> across the planet for.  If instead the meeting and its planning are going
>> to be all about competitive demands for imaginary positional goods, I
>> cannot see the point of the exercise.  We'll already have enough of that
>> with the CSG, why we'd want to replicate it internally at the front end is
>> beyond me.
>>
>> We really need to set aside the asking for stuff bit and focus on actual
>> GNSO work.
>>
>> Back to the equally frustrating negotiations—at least here it's
>> governments playing games.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> PS: Milton and Rafik are unavailable anyway.
>>
>> On Dec 5, 2012, at 7:33 PM, Alain Berranger wrote:
>>
>> Dear Robin,
>>
>> Thanks. I understood the situation.
>>
>>  In practice, how many seats for NCSG's needs will end up going to NCUC
>> members and how many to NPOC members? It seems that the Cy parity is less
>> important to you than to me. In a way, that is not surprising so let's A2D
>> again on that one and move on.
>>
>> NPOC will soon designate a replacement on the NCSG-EC for Lori Schulman,
>> until our 2013 elections anyway - I will let the NCSG-EC know as soon as
>> possible - we have called for nominations and will communicate our decision
>> mid-december.
>>
>> As a NCSG-EC member, I suggest that 5 of the 8 SG wide seats go to the
>> NCSG-EC, ie. you, Milton, Rafik, myself and the new appointee. That would
>> still end up 8 NPOC participants and 12+1 NCUC participants with 5 of these
>> representing the NCSG-EC.
>>
>> I'm less concerned about the NCSG numbers as there will be no shortage in
>> LA, but am concerned about having enough new NPOC members to be able to
>> start a little Cy capacity building.
>>
>> Does that spirit and letter work for you and other NCSG-EC members?
>>
>> Best, Alain
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:37 AM, Robin Gross <robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Alain,
>>>
>>> NCSG on the one hand as the SG, and NPOC and NCUC on the other hand as
>>> constituencies play different roles, perform different functions and have
>>> different responsibilities according the NCSG Charter.
>>>
>>> Neither NCUC nor NPOC may over-take the positions at this mtg reserved
>>> for the NCSG representatives, who were elected by the entire NCSG
>>> membership (including NPOC members) to perform NCSG functions and
>>> responsibilities.
>>>
>>> The constituencies each are allocated 6 seats to ensure their needs are
>>> met, and the NCSG is allocated 8 seats to ensure that NCSG's needs are met.
>>>  Each constituency will have to make due with what has been allocated to
>>> it, as will NCSG.  I hope that clears it up.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Robin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 4, 2012, at 11:46 AM, Alain Berranger wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Robin, Bill:
>>>
>>> IMHO, we do not need the GNSO councillors per se; they can simply show
>>> up as NCUC members... given the parity in numbers between Cys stated by
>>> Rob, I find it more equitable if NPOC gets 10 seats like NCUC... if not, it
>>> will be NCUC with 14 members and only 6 for NPOC. We need parity between
>>> the 2 Cys. Also, if I can mobilize 10 NPOC members, we can have our EC
>>> members (the Toronto NPOC  delegation + Cintra)  plus representatives from
>>> Africa, LAC and Asia.  Indeed, we would like to use the meeting for
>>> capacity building of our Constituency... that's better for ICANN, as NCUC
>>>  is well established and has had 12 years to build capacity and
>>> leadership... NPOC has had a little more than one year...
>>>
>>> What do you say?
>>>
>>> Alain
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Robin Gross <robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Alain,
>>>>
>>>> NCSG-wide seats will go to NCSG-wide representatives (i.e. the NCSG
>>>> GNSO Councilors) not to individual constituency members.  NPOC will have 6
>>>> to allocate and should use those for NPOC representatives.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Robin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 26, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Alain Berranger wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Robin,
>>>>
>>>>  For now, on a preliminary basis to be confirmed, here are NPOC's 4
>>>> intended attendees under NCSG-wide allocation:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Klaus Stoll
>>>> 2. Cintra Sooknanan
>>>> 3. Marie-laure Lemineur
>>>> 4. the undersigned
>>>>
>>>> I will confirm soonest possible.
>>>>
>>>> Best, Alain
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: Robert Hoggarth <robert.hoggarth@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:47 AM
>>>> Subject: Info Request and Update --GNSO NCPH January 2013
>>>> Inter-Sessional Planning - Traveler Info Requested
>>>> To: Robert Hoggarth <robert.hoggarth@xxxxxxxxx>, Marilyn Cade <
>>>> marilynscade@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Robin Gross <robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Rafik
>>>> Dammak <rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx>, "michaeladams@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <
>>>> michaeladams@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "mtrachtenberg@xxxxxxxxxxx" <
>>>> mtrachtenberg@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Alain Berranger <alain.berranger@xxxxxxxxx>,
>>>> Klaus Stoll <klaus.stoll@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Tony Holmes <
>>>> tonyarholmes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, William Drake <william.drake@xxxxxx>,
>>>> David Cake <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Cc: David Olive <david.olive@xxxxxxxxx>, Joseph de Jesus <
>>>> joseph.dejesus@xxxxxxxxx>, Karen Lettner <karen.lettner@xxxxxxxxx>,
>>>> Glen de Saint Géry <Glen@xxxxxxxxx>, Margie Milam <
>>>> Margie.Milam@xxxxxxxxx>, "Metalitz, Steven" <met@xxxxxxx>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Marilyn, Robin, Bill, Tony, Alain, Marc, David, Klaus, Michael and
>>>> Rafik;
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to you all for the latest round of contributions to planning for
>>>> the January meeting.  This message contains confirming information and
>>>> to-do’s regarding the meeting logistics and a modified draft program for
>>>> the meeting.  You have all provided very helpful and reasonable input
>>>> allowing us to fashion logistics that should generally meet all your
>>>> expectations for the meeting.  There are still areas of the program that
>>>> need additional input and that can be adjusted further, but we are now at
>>>> the point where you can begin providing the names of your participants so
>>>> that we can begin making travel arrangements for everyone. ****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> As you review the material below and in the attached document, please
>>>> alert me as soon as possible if you think I have misinterpreted any input
>>>> and if the results are not to your satisfaction.  While we have had to
>>>> make some compromises, I think we are “in the ballpark” in addressing most
>>>> of the various views and requests. ****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> *Please try to get all or most of your planned meeting participant
>>>> names and email addresses in to me by the end of this week – 1 December.
>>>> *  We can continue the dialogue regarding the draft agenda for another
>>>> couple of weeks, but the attendee travel arrangements need to start being
>>>> made as soon as possible to ensure that everyone has a flight and a hotel
>>>> room close by the ICANN office.****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> *Confirmed Logistics:*
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> *Dates and Location:* January 29 and 30, 2013 at ICANN HQ in Los
>>>> Angeles, California****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> *Meeting Hotel:*
>>>>
>>>> Doubletree by Hilton Hotel Los Angeles - Westside
>>>>
>>>> 6161 West Centinela Avenue****
>>>>
>>>> Culver City, CA, 90230-6306****
>>>>
>>>> Phone: 1-310-649-1776  ****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> *Attendance:* Based on the concept of a strategic meeting of community
>>>> leaders, the allocated meeting budget and available space in the ICANN Los
>>>> Angeles office,****
>>>>
>>>> 41 community participants – 20 from each Stakeholder Group plus the
>>>> Nominating Committee Appointee assigned to the GNSO’s Non Contract Party
>>>> House – will be able to attend the meeting in-person.  Remote
>>>> participation capabilities will beprovided to allow other interested
>>>> community members designated by their SG or Constituency to attend.  The
>>>> meeting events will be recorded and transcribed by ICANN.****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Based on input received, the fairest allocation of slots seemed to be
>>>> the following:****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> For the CSG, 6 attendees each for the BC, IPC and ISPCPC, plus two
>>>> CSG-wide seats.****
>>>>
>>>> For the NCSG, 6 attendees each for the NCUC and the NPOC, plus 8
>>>> NCSG-wide seats.****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> These allocations are based on the input that there should be numerical
>>>> parity between SGs and Constituencies and to give flexibility within the
>>>> SG’s as well to the maximum extent possible. As you will see from the draft
>>>> agenda, there is time in the program for each SG to arrange for specific
>>>> community discussions on matters that are of particular interest to them.
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Each Constituency and Stakeholder Group has flexibility in indicating
>>>> who will attend on their behalf.****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> There did not seem to be a consensus on attendance by the GNSO Council
>>>> leadership or representatives from the Registry or Registrar Stakeholder
>>>> Groups.  Therefore, no attendance from those parties is anticipated in
>>>> the participant count or in the agenda topics now being proposed.****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Travel will be arranged through the ICANN Travel Team. The Travel Team
>>>> will reach out directly to all designated attendees with travelspecifics
>>>> and instructions on how to make reservations and arrangements.  ****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> *Please try to get all or most of your attendee names and their email
>>>> addresses in to me by the end of this week – 1 December 2013.* *A
>>>> simple email from you to me with the list of names, community
>>>> title/position (if any) and contact email address will suffice.*****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> *Program:*
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Since there seems to be an understandable and reasonable difference of
>>>> views regarding the scope of topics to be discussed at the meeting, I have
>>>> modified the proposed program/agenda structure to provide for more balance
>>>> between joint (general session) meeting time and individual community
>>>> meeting times. The goal is to let you take advantage of the two days to
>>>> both conduct individual community discussions, and to also engage in
>>>> broader discussions about critical engagement and outreach topics common to
>>>> all.
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> *Please review the modified agenda at your earliest convenience.*  I
>>>> would welcome reactions to this modified approach and I am sure further
>>>> tweaks and adjustments to time frames and topics would improve the program
>>>> even more. I am happy to clarify any areas of the proposed program that are
>>>> not yet clear or fully fleshed out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Note that I have incorporated the idea of a stage-setting panel or
>>>> speaker on Day 2 to provide us with a common knowledge base about the
>>>> future of the ICANN ecosystem. I welcome reactions to that idea, and, if
>>>> you think the idea has any merit, suggestions for possible
>>>> speakers/panelists (most likely remote participant(s)).****
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You will note that the program still includes an evening reception on
>>>> the evening of Tuesday January 29 at the DoubleTree Hotel.  We anticipate
>>>> that you may wish to invite some local LA contacts or other potential
>>>> outreach connections.  We are tentatively setting the arrangements for 80
>>>> attendees at the reception – including meeting participants.
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> *Meeting Report/Assessment:*
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Because this meeting is designated as a “pilot” project in the FY13
>>>> ICANN Budget document, Staff will be preparing an assessment report after
>>>> the meeting concludes to assess its success.  Please expect a contact
>>>> from me in early February asking for your views about the meeting planning
>>>> effort and how the meeting went for you and your community members.****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> *Interest in a Programming Call?*
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Given travel schedules and time zone differences, I think the
>>>> email-input approach has worked fairly well.  Please let me know if
>>>> any of you think we would benefit from a final teleconference to iron out
>>>> any differences with respect to the agenda. If so, I would propose to
>>>> schedule the call some time later next week (December 6 or 7).****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, again, for your willingness to contribute to this effort.  I
>>>> appreciate all your advice and input.****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Rob****
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
>>>> Member, Board of Directors, CECI, 
>>>> http://www.ceci.ca<http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/>
>>>> Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business,
>>>> www.schulich.yorku.ca
>>>> Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation,
>>>> www.gkpfoundation.org
>>>> NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, www.chasquinet.org
>>>> Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, http://npoc.org/
>>>> O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
>>>> Skype: alain.berranger
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> IP JUSTICE
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>>>> p: +1-415-553-6261    f: +1-415-462-6451
>>>> w: http://www.ipjustice.org     e: robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
>>> Member, Board of Directors, CECI, 
>>> http://www.ceci.ca<http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/>
>>> Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business,
>>> www.schulich.yorku.ca
>>> Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation,
>>> www.gkpfoundation.org
>>> NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, www.chasquinet.org
>>> Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, http://npoc.org/
>>> O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
>>> Skype: alain.berranger
>>>
>>>
>>> AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IP JUSTICE
>>> Robin Gross, Executive Director
>>> 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA  94117  USA
>>> p: +1-415-553-6261    f: +1-415-462-6451
>>> w: http://www.ipjustice.org     e: robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
>> Member, Board of Directors, CECI, 
>> http://www.ceci.ca<http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/>
>> Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business,
>> www.schulich.yorku.ca
>> Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation, www.gkpfoundation.org
>> NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, www.chasquinet.org
>> Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, http://npoc.org/
>> O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
>> Skype: alain.berranger
>>
>>
>> AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
> Member, Board of Directors, CECI, 
> http://www.ceci.ca<http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/>
> Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, www.schulich.yorku.ca
> Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation, www.gkpfoundation.org
> NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, www.chasquinet.org
> Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, http://npoc.org/
> O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
> Skype: alain.berranger
>
>
> AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
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>
> CONFIDENTIALITY MESSAGE
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>


-- 
Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
Member, Board of Directors, CECI,
http://www.ceci.ca<http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/>
Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, www.schulich.yorku.ca
Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation, www.gkpfoundation.org
NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, www.chasquinet.org
Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, http://npoc.org/
O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
Skype: alain.berranger


AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
Ce courriel est confidentiel et est à l’usage exclusif du destinataire
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