[soac-newgtldapsup-wg] JAS Adobe Chat transcript 9 August 2011

[Glen de Saint Géry <Glen@xxxxxxxxx>]

Karla Valente: Welcome to the August 9 JAS WG Meeting. Agenda is on the left 
and the discussion topic on the top wiondow (note).

Carlton Samuels: Hello all

Alex Gakuru: hi

Seth Greene: Hello, everyone.  We have set up wiki pages for members' comments 
on the sections of the final report that are covered during the JAS WG calls.  
Please use theses, as Carlton requested during the 5 August meeting, to record 
all your suggestions for text changes to the final report (even if you also 
bring up the suggestion during a meeting or on the mailing list).  
Theseindividual wiki pages -- organized by the date the material is covered in 
the meetings -- can be accessed from:  
https://community.icann.org/display/jaswg/JAS+WG+Final+Report+--+WG+Comments.  
Many, many thanks for your cooperation.

CLO: RAFIK  DO YOU NEED A DIAL OUT? 

CLO: sorry  caps

Karla Valente 3: @ Rafik: we are having difficulties to reach you over the phone

Krista Papac: Hello all.

CLO: hi there

Krista Papac: Joining late...

Alan Greenberg: Meeting is late as well.

CLO: just starting seems ti bd a problem getting Rafik in the teleconf part

Alan Greenberg: On my attendee list, some people are blue and some yellow. Does 
anyone know what the colour means?

CLO: log in as gues or sith password  I thought

CLO: sith = with  not a star wars reference

Alan Greenberg: CLO, did you use a password? I did and I am yellow, you are 
blue (on my screen)

Evan Leibovitch: use the multi-stakeholder Force, Luke

CLO: na  I onky use pword Of  i'm runnjng a call  *that would mean fining tnan 
darn thing*

Cintra Sooknanan: Hello... was able to connect :)

Rafik: @clo finally in the call, looks there is conspiracy to prevent me to 
participate :)

CLO: I trust not Rafik  glad your here now though

Evan Leibovitch: a pay-what-you-can regime will be IMPOSSIBLE to administer

Carlton Samuels: @Rafik: Can I hand over to you now?

Rafik: @carlton just let me know in whcich item we are now

Wendy Profit: Please speak a little more slowly...typing as fast as i can 
taking notes but missing key points and I do apologize

Carlton Samuels: @Wendy: so noted

Carlton Samuels: @Evan +1

Carlton Samuels: But I think we should expand the explanation and remove the 
dollar amount

Alan Greenberg: On the cost reduction rationale, I really think thatwe need 
more active involvement from staff and/or board members. That's the only way 
that we will likely end up with rationale that can be sold.

Eric Brunner-Williams: we made some reduction suggestions, but we don't know 
more than staff and so can't provide better knowledge than staff to the board, 
so we can't provide a better answer, and it is time taken from questions 
arising from recommendation 20 the board raised for which the board has no 
better source of information than the jas-wg.

Carlton Samuels: @Avri +1.  Seems to me we're not going to get more details on 
the figures provided by staff.

Carlton Samuels: my response then is to say we want to suggest a) total waiver

CLO: yup  that has been gone over any numbers of times

Carlton Samuels:  b) redution...and here's what we deduced from looking at  
staff figures

Evan Leibovitch: Staff opinion would be nice, but we can't depend upon it.

Alan Greenberg: Based on the commitment to support this WG, we should be able 
to depend on staff input (perhaps not agreement, but input).

Evan Leibovitch: We are here to say what the community wants. We don't have the 
luxury of time to hope for the kind of input that -- had it been forthcoming -- 
would have been in our hands by now.

Alan Greenberg: I agree with Evan that we should not be wasting time here on 
additional discussion. But I do feel that staff should provide input without us 
begging. That's why we have so much staff involvement in these calls now.

Krista Papac: Agree with Evan too.

Evan Leibovitch: I would remind -- and encourage reference in our report -- to 
reference in the original GNSO policy that explicitly allows more than one 
possible fee

Andrew Mack: agree with Alan

Evan Leibovitch: I oppose wording based on speculation of what reaction might be

Carlton Samuels: @Evan +1

Evan Leibovitch: we're here to indicate what the community wants, not outline a 
bargaining position

Evan Leibovitch: All we need now is snoring snakes. does australia have those?

avri: @evan + we need to explain how things can be done based on the Baords 
questions to us.

CLO: No Evan not to my knowledge  but when Iturned the aircon off in my home 
office room tonight before taking to my bed  FOR  this call there is a 2m 
python who has decided it is way warmer to have moved into the room and is 
curled up on the outlet vents  (hey it is cold atm)  having switched the aircon 
off it has now taken up residence in the bookshelf in that room  but could be 
any where by morning

Alex Gakuru: @you are not serious, right?

Alex Gakuru: @CLO...

CLO: off course I am serious

CLO: I live with many snakes  some of them pythons  here  were in "bushland"

Alex Gakuru: jeez!

CLO: pythons in residance mrand they keep the venemous  snakes away fro the 
house etc., as they are possessive of territory

Evan Leibovitch: I was simply suggesting in the answer to the cost-recovery 
question is that ICANN be entitled to retain auction funds to offset net losses 
encountered due to reduced-fee TLDs

CLO: NP  just a way of life  with wildlife  

CLO: Understood evan

Evan Leibovitch: Avri's answer appears to address it

Evan Leibovitch: Rafik may have the tiller but the oars are still broken

avri: i have to leave this call now.  bye..  probably can't make the Friday  
call.

Carlton Samuels: See u Avri..walk good

avri: will stay on adobe, though may be distracted by another call.

Karla Valente 3: @ wendy: could please note Avri's proposal to Kurt and request 
his feedback along with the question from Eric and Kirsta?

Alan Greenberg: Is this a 1.5 hour call?

CLO: yes Alan

Andrew Mack: I also need to leave the call now.  Regards to all and thanks.

Carlton Samuels: ..but no reason to keep it that artificially!

Eric Brunner-Williams: there is an unanswered, even unasked policy question 
about qualified applicants as participants in auctions. if support begins and 
ends in the application fee reduction, then any application which is not a 
community based application (or brought by a party with a right to the name, 
such as a government other than central) is at a disadvantage to all 
non-qualified applicants in the same contentions et

Carlton Samuels: @Alan:  this idea was abandoned......and a reason why Eric's 
question is still relevant!

Eric Brunner-Williams: only if 14/16

Eric Brunner-Williams: most, but not all -- and the 14/16 metric is actually 
quite high/hard to meet

CLO: indeed it is Eric

Eric Brunner-Williams: and we've allowed commercial in a small market or 
whatever that language was 

Eric Brunner-Williams: and that really is why i asked

Carlton Samuels: @Evan: the DAG answer to your scenario is auction 

Rafik: @eric the case of entrepneur in small market?

Carlton Samuels: ...and per EBW, this inherently disadvantages the 
JAS-qualified applicant

Alan Greenberg: @eric.  Did we discuss this before??

Carlton Samuels: @Alan: it was raised on the list as well as on the 
telecon.....Cintra was the only one who kinda responded.

Eric Brunner-Williams: @alan: i don't think so.

Evan Leibovitch: The contention scenario is one that we're running out of time 
to address. The ICANN regime of solving things by auction -- by definition -- 
biases outcomes based on funds available. It's not onlu JAS-qualified 
applicants who will lose.

Carlton Samuels: @CLO +1  I was going to suggest that the report recognize this 
as a hanging chad..and point out the disadvantage..

Eric Brunner-Williams: @evan: icann selected auction because it is a "fair" 
allocation mechanism for unsupported applicants. the issue is what is the 
"fair" allocation mechanism for unuspported AND supported applicants?

Alan Greenberg: So we need a "there be dragons there" statement.

CLO: yup

Evan Leibovitch: +1 alan

CLO: IMO

Carlton Samuels: @Alan: Yessir!

Carlton Samuels: :-)

CLO: Unknown territory and/but  danger probable

Evan Leibovitch: I recommend that exact wording.

Evan Leibovitch: @alan: take what you can get

Eric Brunner-Williams: so no commercially attractive string can, under our 
proposed implementation of recommendation 20, be allocated to non-first-world 
commercial/speculative applicants.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: "Here be dragons"

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_be_dragons

Alex Gakuru: @olc Mark S?

Evan Leibovitch: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Here_be_dragons

Carlton Samuels: @CLO: +1...create the context for the reference

CLO: perfect  OCL

Alex Gakuru: ops! OCL

Evan Leibovitch: @eric. That is exactly what we need to state in the "here be 
dragons" statement. We may be making some light to releive the tedium of the 
call but the issue is indeed serious. In absence of a creative solution in the 
timeframe we must simply flag it and indicate a willingness to address it

Evan Leibovitch: @CLO: are you taking about using something like surveymoney,  
or just a regular mail? Surveys were used heavily in the Rec6 working group

Wendy Profit: I can pull it from the transcript to be sure and send it to the 
list.

Carlton Samuels: @Wendy:  Thank you very much

Evan Leibovitch: thanks for understanding my typo. I don't know what 
"surveymoney" is

Eric Brunner-Williams: the bc went out of its way to ensure that their 
applications (not meeting the jas recommended qualifications) will not compete 
with jas qualified applications, and their mechanism for non-compete is 
ensuring non-funding for jas qualified applicants. so they take this as a 
serious risk to their applications.

Alex Gakuru: +1

Alex Gakuru: bye all

Evan Leibovitch: How did the BC ensure non-funding for applicants? We have some 
BC members here (ie, Andrew) who are quite supportive. And -- as we discussed 
in this call -- not all qualified applicants are merely community applications.

CLO: bye  till next time

Alex Gakuru: hahaha

Evan Leibovitch: ICANN has its own snakes

Evan Leibovitch: bye

Eric Brunner-Williams: see the bc comment to mr2


Glen de Saint Géry
GNSO Secretariat
gnso.secretariat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://gnso.icann.org