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Re: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of that sequence of events i rattled off on the call just now -- registrant role in TDRP
- To: "Mike O'Connor" <mike@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: Re: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of that sequence of events i rattled off on the call just now -- registrant role in TDRP
- From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 17:22:10 +0100
Hi Mike,
i'm trying to remedy the situation where a registrar is either in
violation of the IRTP themselves (refusing to allow the registrant to
transfer out) or is presumptively denying the registrant due process
in a dispute between registrars. this was recognized as an oversight
in the policy back in the misty past when this series of IRTP PDPs was
launched.
In the first case, the right venue for the registrant is ICANN
compliance, where he can lodge a complaint against his registrar.
In the second case, I still not see that denying a registrant access to
a process not designed for him denies him due process. I do not see that
this process is "due" to registrants.
i don't care how this happens. registrars are probably in the best
position to figure out the best way to get this done and i'm happy to
leave that discussion up to them. i like James' "put pressure on
Registrars to comply" approach since that seems like a lighter/simpler
one but i can live with anything that fixes that problem. what i'm
not keen on the idea of leaving registrants in their current situation
where these decisions get made "for them" by registrars with no
recourse for trapped registrants except worldwide courts.
A registrant can always take recourse with ICANN compliance if his
registrar violates its obligations under the RAA (which includes all
consensus policies):
http://www.icann.org/en/resources/compliance/complaints/transfer
Remember, were are purely talking process here, and registrar process
violations are a compliance matter. Compliance action will force the
violating registrar to fix the breach, therefore resolving the
registrants issue.
Best regards,
Volker
On Dec 3, 2013, at 9:51 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Mike,
you are assuming that registrants should be beneficiaries of the
TDRP. They are not. Therefore a registrar not initiating a TDRP is
not blocking the registrants access as they do not have such an
access in the first place.
If you want to give the registrant a way to force a registrar to
initiate a proceeding against another registrar, that is another
story, but that way needs to include an obligation of the registrant
to pay the costs and a right of a registrar to charge for this
service (to cover the work needed to handle the process).
Volker
i think the key distinction i want to draw is with your sentence
"give registrants access to" the TDRP. that's not the intent. the
intent is to ensure that registrants are not blocked from that
process by their registrar. the hope here is to provide an appeal
mechanism in those cases where registrar and registrant disagree on
whether a TDRP is warranted. but i'm fine setting the bar for that
appeal pretty high.
On Dec 2, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Volker Greimann
<vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I still feel that giving registrants access to the TDRP process
dilutes its purpose as an inter-registrar dispute process designed
to deal with process violations and will turn it into a transfer
dispute process between registrants, dragging registrars and
registries into a civil conflict between two parties. This will
result in increased costs and work for contracted parties.
If a registrar is violating transfer processes, there will be
sufficient incentive for affected registrars to call them out and
if necessary invoke the current process.
What we need to look at instead is if creating an alternate process
between registrant and former registrant regarding the ownership of
a domain name makes sense.
I am also a big fan of the line "He who wants to hear the music
should pay for the band!", i.e. if a registrant wants a process to
be invoked, he should be prepared to pony up the fees, just as with
the UDRP. Adding a "loser pays" clause makes sense to me, but in
that case it will remain the risk of the complainant that the
respondent cannot pay/is unreachable/etc...
Volker
Provide the ability for the registrant to trigger the TDRP process
in cases when they disagree with their registrar over an IRTP issue
*
In general, registrars initiate TDRP when they can't resolve
matters between themselves
In the case of disagreement between registrar and registrant
as to whether to initiate a TDRP, provide a path for the
registrant to take the issue to Compliance
Build minimum documentation requirements for registrants into
the policy as a filter to prevent frivolous filings
If Compliance agrees with registrant, TDRP proceeds as normal,
with fees paid by registrars, as normal
If Compliance disagrees with registrant, that's it -- it's off
to court if the registrant wants to proceed.
PHONE: 651-647-6109, FAX: 866-280-2356, WEB: www.haven2.com
<http://www.haven2.com/>, HANDLE: OConnorStP (ID for Twitter,
Facebook, LinkedIn, etc.)
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web:www.key-systems.net /www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com /www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is
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PHONE: 651-647-6109, FAX: 866-280-2356, WEB: www.haven2.com
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Facebook, LinkedIn, etc.)
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web:www.key-systems.net /www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com /www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen
Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder
Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht
nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder
telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web:www.key-systems.net /www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com /www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is
addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this
email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an
addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the
author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
PHONE: 651-647-6109, FAX: 866-280-2356, WEB: www.haven2.com
<http://www.haven2.com>, HANDLE: OConnorStP (ID for Twitter, Facebook,
LinkedIn, etc.)
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen
Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder
Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht
nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder
telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is
addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this
email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an
addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the
author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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