RE: [apralo] Action items from APRALO Vancouver meeting

["Tony Hill" <tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Apologies if I am not up to date with these discussion.

I am wondering if a further meeting or discussions of bylaws is planned for
the Wellington ICANN meeting coming up at end of March.

Regards, Tony Hill

--
| Tony Hill                           president@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
| President            Internet Society of Australia (ISOC-AU) |
| Tel +61 2 6257 5544                               PO Box 152 |
| Mobile 041 212 8755          Civic Square ACT 2608 Australia |
| Fax +61 2 6262 9938                       www.isoc-au.org.au |
|                The Internet is for Everyone!                 |

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-apralo@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-apralo@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
ICANN At-Large - Denise Michel
Sent: Saturday, 24 December 2005 7:53 AM
To: apralo@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [apralo] Action items from APRALO Vancouver meeting

Greetings.

Included below are follow-up actions from the December 2005 APRALO meetings
in Vancouver.  Please feel free to suggest additions/changes. 
(Send emails to: apralo@xxxxxxxxxx )

1) Agree on work plan for APRALO formation (includes finalizing bylaws, MOU,
operational details, outreach and meeting schedule)
        Action:  draft plan will be circulated for discussion
2) Revise bylaws per meeting discussion and work towards final agreement
        Action:  provide any additional comments to attached draft bylaws
for incorporation in next draft
        Drafting Group: Stafford Guest, David Farrar, Hong Xue
3) Discuss draft MOU language
        Action:  draft MOU language will be circulated based on ICANN bylaws
and volunteers' input
        Drafting Group: Stafford Guest, David Farrar, Hong Xue (Denise
Michel)
4) Update and agree on outreach plan and meeting schedule
        Action: circulate draft plan for discussion
        Outreach Group: Hong Xue, Ching Chiao, Franck Martin, (Siavash
Shahshahani for Tommy Matsumoto?)
5) Review/add to volunteer assignments (see below) including APRALO
formation Chairs/Steering Group
        Action:  share suggestions and volunteer through this email list
6) Review current secretariate needs/services and seek volunteers
        Action:  share suggestions and volunteer through this email list
7) Explore scheduling APRALO meeting at APRICOT and in Hong Kong at
conference sponsored by Afilias
        Action:  need volunteer to organize APRICOT meeting and Hong Kong
meeting (if feasible)
8) Create APRALO formation email list updated/maintained by ICANN
        Action:  done - apralo@xxxxxxxxxx
9) Review/approve meeting minutes for APRALO 2 December 2005 09:00 am
meeting (see below) (no notes from smaller evening meeting, just the agreed
to action items listed here)
        Action:  send edits to this email list


Thanks.
Denise
michel@xxxxxxxxx

===================================

Volunteer Assignments (done in July at Luxembourg meeting)
- Steering Group/Chairs - *need volunteer/s
- Drafting Group - provide draft bylaws and MOU  for group review
        Volunteers: Stafford Guest, David Farrar, Hong Xue
- Business Plan Group  - provide draft APRALO operations plan
        Volunteers:  Ku Wei Wu, Izumi Aizu, other?
- Outreach Group  - provide draft outreach plan and contact more
groups/potential participants
        Volunteers:  Tommy Matsumoto, Hong Xue, Ching Chiao, Franck Martin

=============================

APRALO Formation Meeting
2 December 2005
09:00
Vancouver
(recorded by Jacob Malthouse)
*DRAFT NOTES* *NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION*

EDMUND
Concerns seems to be formation of a council that would be regionally
representative. Idea: council may be formed later. RALO can help to do
outreach first.

KUO-WEI
Two comments:
If RALO doesn't work? What is the legitimacy of doing interim for ever

HOWARD
Is it necessary to form a formal ALAC structure? ICANN is an open structure.

DENISE
RALO structure is intended to facilitate user group decisions about who will
participate on the ALAC.  One useful area is as a secretariat to assist with
nomination and translation. Don't think of RALO as requirement. Loosely
defined structure. It will do what we will find useful for the region.

HONG
Suggestion: five minutes for IZUMI to explain his RALO idea.
Issue: are we working hard to establish a concept that will be a failure?
Principles of RALO: openness, transparency and inclusive.

SHESHAN
Suggest all discussion about RALO be delegated to some other meeting. 
Lets work on agenda as it is.

STAFFORD
First meeting about this at Luxemburg. RALO was established. I support RALO.
Enough people here to make a positive input.

SEBASTIAN
RALO will be as successful as you make it.

EDMUND
This is not a bad discussion. But agree we should focus on the current
framework. Can we have a less formal structure. Facilitating role.

JOINS: DAVID FARRER - chair of internet new Zealand.

EDMUND
Look at GAC model?

KUO-WEI
Organise people working on outreach/finance. Council is not hierarchical or
bureaucratic. Wants to ensure coordination. A lot of this has already been
discussed.

HONG
How can we make people outside of the meeting aware of this process?

DENISE
Minutes will be circulated.

HONG
If there is going to be an APRALO. It will be the first one. There is no
model to follow. We will be pioneers. ICANN approved draft of RALO. This is
going to be a challenge. We have five regions in the  World. Standard or
differing models. Key constituencies in ICANN are going to reform as result
of WSIS. We need to keep an open mind.

CHAIR (Chair for this meeting was Izumi Aizu) Current observation.
Myself, Esther and Denise (DENISE and others.Vittorio) DISCUSSION. 
Developed RALO. How to effectively channel the global voice of users in the
advisory? We need a channel. ICANN is global. Because meetings expensive,
have local groups to collate input from regions. ALS could be issue or
region based. We decided to have a structure to help manage and ensure the
quality of interaction from users.

Second point. Measure of legitimacy? Countries/companies/people etc? yes
have some doubt about RALO. But let's see how things develop in practice.

SEBASTIAN

Some NA ALAC members have their own agendas. Board and voting discussion is
Byzantine, not sure we will solve it now or tomorrow. Good thing is that new
organisations are becoming interested. The AP RALO will serve as an example
for other regions to encourage them to grow and start their own RALOs.


HOWARD**
Have better understanding thanks. Why do we need a bylaw? Prefer something
informal.

KUO-WEI
What is the legitimacy of ALAC? Interim for ever? Don't want uniform
structures. Every region has its own process.

HONG
Believe that ICANN would like to maintain a bottom line of uniformity. 
One region could use GAC model, another could use ALAC, every region should
have a RALO, that is bottom line. But understand that this is an experiment
and we need to be courageous.

SEBASTIAN

Most interim members are not planning to be here the rest of our lives.

CHAIR

Summing up. LEGITIMACY is key. Is RALO the right structure? Especially if it
has a heavyweight structure? No one insisting on heavyweight structure. Some
uncertainty about the future of global RALO. Majority of people agree we
need to be courageous.

STAFFORD

Personal feeling is we need some "rules" to say this is how we are going to
conduct our business. If we have some informal rules it might help us to
focus our business. Refer to TAIWAN meeting document as a basis for
discussion.

FRANCK MARTIN

You need a chairman to help coordinate and liaise. ICANN may provide support
once RALO is up and running.

BYLAWS

GARTH
I would like to talk about the bylaws:

3.1.2  Change expression at beginning "to promote and represent" to
"understand and advocate for"

Council and council meetings: specify that council meetings are OPEN.

HONG
Suggest that each presentation/intervention should be maximum five minutes.

FRANCK

These things should be up to the chair to conduct meetings as they want.

CHAIR

Agree to create RALO?

HOWARD

Do we need to discuss bylaw today? Do we have enough people in the region?
AL is representative of the end users. I formally represent ISOC China and
would like to see more representatives of the same qualifications.

DAVID
People don't join organisations like this to debate bylaws. Need a
workable-flexible structure, then move on to talking about the issues. 
Lets move quickly.

KUO-WEI

HOWARD can you define numbers?

HOWARD

One person from two-thirds of country or regional economy.

KUO-WEI

So now is not right time because not enough people?

HOWARD

That is what I am suggesting.

HONG

Nature of our discussion? See concern from Howard and Guo Weh.  We need
consensus in this room are we ready to take these decisions about they
bylaws?

CHAIR

Anyone want to decide bylaws immediately?

Silence

CHAIR

Anyone not want to discuss bylaws?
Silence

CHAIR

Suggest we discuss for 30 min. circulate. Decide how to decide next step.

EDMUND

Should we call it bylaw? Something else?

SEBASTIAN

Voting mechanism and council at this point? Maybe have a light structure and
first and develop this over time?

CHAIR

Think everyone agrees

ROBERTO

Timing and interest of people: next ICANN meeting will take place in
Wellington. Put yourself in the best position for that meeting. 
Wellington will be a stage for you to be operational.

SHASHANI

ICANN bylaws define what a RALO is.  Clause: ALAC / RALO relationship has to
be defined. READS FROM ICANN BYLAWS.

Lets focus on the concept of membership?

FRANCK

Suggest we review bylaw and submit them to a vote.

EDMUND

That is a quick and dirty way to go about it. Some of the concerns raised
today warns us to go a little bit further in our discussions. We should
thank Stafford but could also revise this as he suggested.

HONG
No objection to current text. Rather than going through provisions one by
one. We should establish some principles or guidelines for the bylaws.

Strongly suggest that there should be video or sound recording in future.

I just got this version of the bylaws last night. Makes it difficult to
comment.

CHAIR

Minutes of Taipei were circulated following Taipei.  Bylaws were finished a
week following Taipei and circulated

HONG

I cannot receive all and every message.

CHAIR

Did you raise that before?

HONG

Suggest we reform our communication system.

DENISE

Given challenges in working internationally. It would be appropriate for us
to use the AP RALO website / email list / and other infrastructure. 
Have asked ICANN webmaster to create and maintain that list and ensure
website operational. ICANN will ensure audio and video webcast of all future
meetings.

CHAIR

In the interim good solution. We should also have our own structure.

FRANCK

This is just some rules of proceeding together. Only one thing is missing.
How do we change these bylaws?  Could we put a rule about how to change the
bylaws and that will make it easier for us to move forward.

Council should meet annually? Perhaps better to meet every time ICANN is in
the region?

HOWARD

Hesitate to call it bylaw.

CHAIR

Suggestion?

HOWARD

Principles of action.

CHAIR

Have to finish meeting in 30 mins

EDMUND

Suggest operating principles.

Suggest one further redraft.

ALAC allows voice of user to be heard on the board.

ROBERTO

Keep Wellington in mind for furthering the discussion.

ALAC gives an additional opportunity to interact directly with the board.
RALO allows for coordination and channelling of ideas into formalised
opinions.

SEBASTIAN

Thanks for saying ICANN open!

VITTORIO

This work should be region driven. Understand you have a difficult job. 
Your region is large and diverse. If you succeed this will really be a true
success. Want to thank everyone for their hard work.

SHASHANI

Channel created to allow

Could we continue to discuss this online so that before the next meeting we
have something.

HOWARD

I am one with reservation about bylaws.  I would like to see more outreach
before we have formal discussion.

EDMUND

Would like to meet again to plan outreach etc.

FRANCK

As long as we leave it open for change to occur we should be ok. Lets agree
this structure and then we can amend over time.

CHAIR

Appropriate diversity may be hard to gauge in this discussion.
Suggest we discuss this further informally.

SHASHANI

Suggest you create an AP RALO to discuss this

CHAIR

We have a list already.

SHASHANI

Suggesting a specific list for the BYLAWs.

DAVID

Two major upcoming meetings  APRICOT - Perth February.  Next ICANN meeting
is in Wellington.

CHAIR

Another meeting at 1800 today.