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[gnso-ccwg-dt] MP3 recording Cross-Community Working Group (CWG) Thursday 27 February 2014 at 21:00 UTC

  • To: "gnso-ccwg-dt@xxxxxxxxx" <gnso-ccwg-dt@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Subject: [gnso-ccwg-dt] MP3 recording Cross-Community Working Group (CWG) Thursday 27 February 2014 at 21:00 UTC
  • From: Terri Agnew <terri.agnew@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 05:26:47 -0800

Dear All, 


Please find the MP3 recording of the Cross-Community Working Group (CWG)
teleconference held on Thursday February 27 2014 at 21:00 UTC at: 


On page:

 <http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/#sep> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/#feb


The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master
Calendar page:
 <http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/



Mike O'Connor - ISP

John Berard - BC co-chair
Chuck Gomes - RySG

Cheryl Langdon-Orr - ALAC

Alberto Soto - NCUC

Alan Greenberg - ALAC

Becky Burr - ccNSO  co-chair

Evan Leibovitch - ALAC



Julie Hedlund

Mary Wong
Bart Boswinkel

Nathalie Peregrine

Terri Agnew


Absent apologies


Participants subscribed to the mailing list:

Tim Ruiz  - RrSG

Jeff Neuman  -RYSG

Wendy Seltzer - NCSG

Edmon Chung - ALAC 

Wolf-Ulrich Knoben -  ISP 



Volker Greimann

David Cake 
Jonathan Robinson 


** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** 


Adobe Chat:

Terri Agnew:Welcome to the Cross-Community Working Group (CWG) on Thursday
27 February 2014

  Bart Boswinkel:Good evening

  Mary Wong:Hello early birds!

  Alberto Soto:Good evening

  Mary Wong:Welcome, Alberto.

  Alberto Soto:ThanksMary

  Alan Greenberg:On bridge now.

  Mike O'Connor:me

  Mary Wong:@Alan, :)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:and past ones have as well Alan

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:there is often need to go out to seek input,  support
or in principle agreement between at least SO and AC leadership right back
at beginning existing framework(s) guidelines and SOP's is a huge help

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:differences will always need to be accommodated

  Alan Greenberg:Over my involvement in ICANN, I have seen VERY few groups
where the (large) number of participants was a problem!

  John Berard:Vertical Integration?

  Alan Greenberg:That's the one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Mary Wong:If it helps, in this instance the foundational documents already
exist (GNSO initial draft, ccNSO response, staff paper).

  Alan Greenberg:Becky, for most groups, too many GNSO volunteers is not a
problem. Perhaps sadly.

  Mike O'Connor:what about the NRO, are we expecting a participant from

  Terri Agnew:Evan Leibovitch has joined

  Mike O'Connor:yes

  Mary Wong:@Mikey, we'll invite all SO/ACs - but note that since the
charter now says "each participating SO and AC" so it envisages that maybe
not all SOs or ACs will participate.

  Mike O'Connor:ah

  Mike O'Connor:that works

  Becky Burr (Neustar):i have no problem with a minimum of 2

  Bart Boswinkel:Please note the differnce between members and observers all
are particpants

  Mary Wong:Following from my earlier comment in chat about having the
foundational documents already in hand, the point there was that there
therefore may not be a need for a large WG to develop the final principles.

  Becky Burr (Neustar):minimum of 2, maximum of 5, subject to
reconsideration in the event of over-subscription 

  Chuck Gomes:I am comfortable with a min of 2 and max of 4 if we are
talking about voting members only.

  Becky Burr (Neustar):yes

  Mike O'Connor:minimum of 2, no max, subject to reconsideration in the
event of over-subscription 

  Mary Wong:@Alan, what Cheryl and Becky said.

  Evan Leibovitch:hi all. just lurking.

  Chuck Gomes:Great question Alan

  Mary Wong:@Becky and all, we can rephrase that sentence to say maximum of
[ ] voting members; we can also tighten up the language referring to
Participants (which are Members plus Observers), Members (who vote), and
Observers (who do not).

  Evan Leibovitch:"Community/Constituency members" > "Community/Constituency
leaders or representatives"

  Alan Greenberg:Do we have to ask Cheryl to leave because she is not an AC

  Evan Leibovitch:not the same

  Evan Leibovitch:The AC/SO can designate liaisons who are not actual
councillors or Committee members.

  Alan Greenberg:But if RSSAC says we do not want to participate in THIS
group, isbn't that their call?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Alan Membership in a Representation al sence can be
Confirmed and here I did not read currently sitting/serving Council Member

  Chuck Gomes:@ mikey: no max on voting members?

  Mary Wong:@Alan, yes. The numbers we are discussing here are only for
"participating SOs and ACs", not "all SOs and ACs".

  Alan Greenberg:@CLO, I was quoting the words on the screen "Members of..."

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:btw I'm as happy with 2-5 as 1-4 or any other couplet

  Mike O'Connor:@chuck -- i'm used to WGs that mostly get to consensus - so
if one person is really concerned, we fix it.  not as familiar w/voting

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:AGREED Concensus is key to best outcomes here and I
believe in following Principals to be developed yes but we also need a 'vote
mechanism'  to utalise as required

  Becky Burr (Neustar):could we chat briefly about the consensus issue tho

  Mike O'Connor:yup - agreed

  John Berard:Becky, you should talk to Thomas Rickert about the IGO/INGO

  Alberto Soto:I think: Consensus is that everyone has the same opinion. If
there is a single dissent, there is no consensus. The opposite, dissent:
when no one agrees with the proposition.  Between the two extremes: some
agree and some do not.And here we can speak of majority and minorityThen
maybe, we should talk about percentages of approval and disapproval

  Becky Burr (Neustar):but we are NOT drafting policy, just making
recommendations to our respective groups

  Becky Burr (Neustar):but there is no provision for blocking here - we are
only seeking to act by consensus

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:agree Chuck there is a risk of a chilling effect if we
have a lack of understanding (agreed understanding) 

  Evan Leibovitch:I was in the IGO WG. The problem is that there was an
inability to have a category of "consensus AGAINST" a proposal given to the

  Mike O'Connor:i'm ok with dropping 3rd one too

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:works for me with the first 2 sure

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:but think we need the 'classes

  Mary Wong:Got it.

  Mike O'Connor:@beck does getting rid of that work for you?

  Mary Wong:So basically there will be Full Consensus (ie unanimity);
Convergence (small minority disagrees); and No Consensus (i.e.

  Mike O'Connor:trivia question: who came up with these tiers first?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:but keep divergence or just 'ignore that option?

  Mike O'Connor:no, just the work that's coming up

  Becky Burr (Neustar):actually, i am very confused about why we need a
rigid characterization at all.  we are just seeking to act with consensus
and in the event we don't have it, we would just describe it (e.g., x
members of the working group support this issue, y members hate it)

  Mary Wong:@Mikey, the answer to your question lies in the deliberations of
the GNSO Improvements group - prob one of the Sub Teams ....

  Mike O'Connor:Ram Mohan

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the wg that developed the GNSO Guidelines proposed them
in that process then of course the usual reviews happened Mikey

  Mike O'Connor:in an earlier Wg

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yup Mary. we could list the ST. but that is too
granular IMO

  Mike O'Connor:back on topic - i'm ok with full-consensus operating method
for the upcoming WG - we DO want strong support for the outcome

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:non contributory SO/AC's may want to know the degree of
such support ;-)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:must be UTC Mary yes

  Mary Wong:The Singapore office needs more decor :)

  Evan Leibovitch:Statues... to tear down during the revolution

  Mary Wong:Thanks, everyone.

Thank you.
Kind regards,


Terri Agnew

GNSO Secretariat




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