ICANN ICANN Email List Archives

[gnso-improvem-impl-sc]


<<< Chronological Index >>>    <<< Thread Index >>>

RE: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task - Councilor Training

  • To: "'Ron Andruff'" <randruff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx" <gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Subject: RE: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task - Councilor Training
  • From: "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" <AAikman@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:17:10 +0000

Strongly agree with these observations 


Anne E. Aikman-Scalese
Of Counsel
Lewis and Roca LLP . Suite 700
One South Church Avenue . Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611
Tel (520) 629-4428 . Fax (520) 879-4725
AAikman@xxxxxxxxx . www.LewisandRoca.com/Aikman
P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
This e-mail contains legally privileged and confidential information
intended only for the individual or entity named within the message.
If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the 
agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this communication is prohibited.  If this communication
was received in error, please notify us by reply e-mail and delete the original 
message.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ron Andruff
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:10 AM
To: gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task - Councilor Training


Dear all,

The question of what is the SCI remit and what is not must always be 
considered, but it should not be used as a tool to inhibit a broad discussion 
around any issue that comes before us.  I don't think anyone on this Committee 
is suggesting that we become a drafting team for the suggested primer.  That is 
a matter to be taken up at Council level, in response to our recommendations.

What is being said - and this goes to the point of Avri's post below - is that 
training for new councilors is now an absolute must as ICANN matures.
The SCI cannot and must not ignore the importance of getting this training 
element enshrined in the GNSO Council best practices to educate and ensure that 
future Councilors do not find themselves ignorant of the ground rules that 
govern their actions.  This is even more important, as Avri notes below, for 
NCA appointees.

I won't opine on Avri's comments as to why this has yet to be put in place, but 
I do feel strongly that it is time to get this sorted once and for all.
Therefore, I don't see any reason as to why the SCI should not make a 
training/primer program for GNSO Councilors part of our recommendations to 
Council in our response to the issue of re-voting a motion.

Kind regards,

RA

Ronald N. Andruff

RNA Partners, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 8:15 AM
To: gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task - Councilor Training


Hi,

Since I was first aded to the g-cpuncil way back when, people have talk about 
training for new council members.  Glad to see that old ideas never die.

- I think it is out of scope for this group.  We are responsible for looking at 
the rules themselves.  Not how a council members becomes educated in those 
rules. 

- I am sure that too many council members would be too busy or too intelligent 
to bother taking the course or learn anything from them.  they are not that 
hard or long to read and the staff has done a good job of creating information 
pieces.  Anyone who is smart enough to be on the council can learn the rules if 
they wish to learn the rules.  Plus except for NCAs, any new council member 
have the senior council members form their Constituency/SG to epxlain things to 
them form their C/SG's perspective.

- there is a major education effort elsewhere in ICANN.  It is bogged down in 
politics, because no one can agree on the content and the identity of the 
teachers.  We do not trust each other enough to allow someone from the other 
side, or even staff, to do the teaching.

avri



On 15 Jan 2013, at 17:23, Ron Andruff wrote:

> Dear all,
>  
> I think that the concept of providing a new councilor primer is an
excellent idea and one that we should give more thought to.  Indeed, if all new 
Councilors are provided with a briefing on their mandate, documents that they 
should review, etc. that would serve the ICANN community and its various 
constituencies well.  Moreover, a neutral presentation of 
roles/responsibilities and what is expected of them, may go further to assist 
new councilors in learning how to find consensus.  Something we can all agree 
has been lacking in the trench warfare that we have seen in Council over the 
years.
>  
> Thanks to Jennifer and Anne for bringing this idea forward.  Let's 
> explore
this further.
>  
> Kind regards,
>  
> RA
>  
> Ronald N. Andruff
> RNA Partners, Inc.
> From: owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Aikman-Scalese, Anne
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:41 PM
> To: 'Alain Berranger'; Jen Wolfe
> Cc: Neuman, Jeff; Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx; avri@xxxxxxx;
gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
>  
> Hi all,
> I find myself a bit more concerned about the possible effect of such a
rule on quashing motions for reconsideration.  There may even be changed 
circumstances that might justify reconsideration and one would not want to make 
a rule that no motion that has previously been voted upon can be brought before 
the Council again. 
>  
> I also tend to wonder whether a Councilor, especially a newer 
> Councilor,
laboring under a misimpression about the conflict of interest rules, might not, 
in itself, constitute a changed circumstance.  Maybe I am less critical because 
the Councilor in question is an IPC Councilor and also a very good lawyer.  If 
he was confused about this, I consider it possible that anyone might be.  So I 
tend to disagree that if the Councilor in question had been NCSG, that there 
would have been a uproar about the change in vote (or at least there shouldn't 
be in an ideal ICANN world).
>  
> There is an aspect of this which for me involves "Do unto others as 
> you
would have others do unto you."  So it seems that if we say this is okay the 
way it happened, the same leniency is given going forward to any Councilor who 
labors under a misunderstanding of Council rules, subject perhaps to the 
discretion of the Chair in bringing the motion again.
>  
> The harder line would be:  "Dear Councilor: You are responsible for
knowing all the rules before you vote and no misunderstanding on your part as 
to any issue can serve as a basis for resubmission of a motion."  If we go this 
route, new Councilors should definitely be trained accordingly.  Do new GNSO 
Councilors receive training and orientation as is the norm for most Boards?
> Anne
>  
> <image001.gif>Anne E. Aikman-Scalese
> Of Counsel
> Lewis and Roca LLP . Suite 700
> One South Church Avenue . Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611 Tel (520) 
> 629-4428 . Fax (520) 879-4725 AAikman@xxxxxxxxx . 
> www.LewisandRoca.com/Aikman
> 
> P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> This e-mail contains legally privileged and confidential information 
> intended only for the individual or entity named within the message.
> If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the 
> agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are 
> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or 
> copying of this communication is prohibited.  If this communication 
> was received in error, please notify us by reply e-mail and delete the
original message.
>  
>  
> From: owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alain Berranger
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:26 AM
> To: Jen Wolfe
> Cc: Neuman, Jeff; Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx; avri@xxxxxxx;
gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
> 
> Thanks Jennifer,
>  
> Common sense speaks again! The black belt argument will often close a
discussion, though!!!! ;-) Many involved with ICANN would likely benefit from 
six sigma training... including myself!
>  
> Let's see what the Standing Committee on GNSO Improvements 
> Implementation
I discussions will lead too.
>  
> Cheers, Alain
>  
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Jen Wolfe <jwolfe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>  
> I hope your new year is  off to a great start.  I know I am new to the
council and this committee so forgive me if I am misunderstanding our role, but 
what confused me about this particular issue was that all of the councilors had 
the opportunity for discussion, to ask questions and for consensus.  A vote was 
taken and then a councilor asked further clarifying questions and then wanted 
to change his vote.  From a strictly process standpoint, I am not clear on why 
a new vote should be allowed once the time for discussion and clarifying 
questions close.  In any other parliamentary procedure, legislative body or 
corporate governance on boards, once a vote is taken, that's it, even if 
someone misunderstood something procedurally or substantively.
>  
> I fully understand the need for consensus, but once discussion closes 
> and
a vote is taken, from a process and procedural standpoint, it's a slippery 
slope to start allowing votes to be re-opened because one person asked a 
clarifying question after the vote was taken.  It not only takes up valuable 
time of the council in discussing new issues, but could be used inappropriately 
in the future if this were permissible. 
>  
> I look forward to participating in this committee.  I have a black 
> belt in
six sigma process improvement and pride myself on finding ways to function more 
efficiently and hope I can provide meaningful contributions to this committee. 
>  
> Have a great weekend!
>  
> JENNIFER C. WOLFE, ESQ., APR, SSBB
> MANAGING DIRECTOR, WOLFE DOMAIN, A DIGITAL BRAND STRATEGY ADIVSORY 
> FIRM MANAGING PARTNER, WOLFE, SADLER, BREEN, MORASCH & COLBY, AN 
> INTELLECTUAL
PROPERTY LAW FIRM
> IAM 300 - TOP 300 GLOBAL IP STRATEGISTS 2011 & 2012 Follow Me: 
> <image005.gif> <image006.gif> <image007.gif>
> Blog: What will you do when your CEO asks why you didn't apply for a gTLD?
> 
> Book: Domain Names Rewired
>  
>  
> From: owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neuman, Jeff
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:05 PM
> To: Alain Berranger; Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: avri@xxxxxxx; gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
> 
> Subject: RE: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
>  
> All,
>  
> I am still missing the rationale as to why the NCSG representatives
believe this rule should be in place for a bottom-up consensus driven 
organization.  
>  
> Please help me understand.
>  
> Jeffrey J. Neuman
> Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Business Affairs
> 
>  
> From: Alain Berranger [mailto:alain.berranger@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:01 PM
> To: Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: avri@xxxxxxx; gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx;
jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx; Neuman, Jeff
> Subject: Re: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
>  
>  
> I agree fully with Mary's arguments.
>  
> Best, Alain
> 
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:16 PM, <Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Thanks, Jonathan and Jeff. As I won't be on the SCI call this week, my
view, FWIW, is that a motion that is properly introduced, seconded and voted on 
should NOT be re-introduced (whether in its original form or tweaked) in the 
absence of clear evidence indicating fraud, duress or other similar 
circumstance surrounding the original introduction/seconding/vote in relation 
to the motion. In this regard, Councilors' ignorance of the rules (e.g. effect 
of an abstention), and lack of instruction/direction from a Councilor's 
particular constituency/SG, should NOT count as the type of circumstance that 
ought to permit a reintroduction or re-vote on what in substance is the same 
motion.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Mary
> 
> Mary W S Wong
> Professor of Law
> Director, Franklin Pierce Center for IP Chair, Graduate IP Programs 
> UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW Two White Street Concord, NH 
> 03301 USA
> Email: mary.wong@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Phone: 1-603-513-5143
> Webpage: http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php
> Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network 
> (SSRN)
at: http://ssrn.com/author=437584
>  
> >>> "Jonathan Robinson" 01/10/13 1:12 AM >>>
> All,
>  
> My understanding of the role of the SCI is to determine how 
> improvements
may be made for the future.
>  
> When the motion was re-submitted to the December meeting, I do not 
> believe
that there was any procedure to guide the Council on the re-introduction of a 
motion that had recently been voted on.
>  
> This specific issue has highlighted that we may need something to 
> guide us
on this in future.  I do not believe that the SCI?s hands are tied at all.
>  
> We have one useful example which raised concerns and now need to look 
> at
as general solution as possible for the future in order to cover both the 
example that raised the concern and other cases which may occur in future.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
>  
> Jonathan
>  
> From: owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
Mary.Wong@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: 09 January 2013 16:58
> To: avri@xxxxxxx; gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
> Cc: jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx; Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
>  
> I support Avri's points generally, and would add the following in this
specific instance:
> 
> - the initial vote was properly proposed, seconded and voted on.
> 
> - just as ignorance of the law is no excuse, the fact that Councilors 
> were
not aware of the implications of an abstention (when, frankly, they should be 
as it's in the rules plain as day) should not permit a re-introduction of 
something that was properly introduced and voted on.
> 
> - In this case I don't know if the specific constituency impacted had
given instructions to its Councilors as to how to vote. Even if they did not, 
the fact remains that these are very clearly set out in the GNSO rules, and if 
a constituency or Councilors did not know or did not make the time to 
discuss/decide, that is a very poor excuse for reintroducing a motion (again, 
one properly introduced, seconded and voted on).
> 
> - In an ideal world, the Council should have suspended the matter and
referred the issue of a re-introduction/reconsideration of such a motion 
(without necessarily specifying the actual motion or context) to the SCI before 
re-opening the vote. As it is, it seems as though the SCI's hands are somewhat 
tied since the second motion did get voted on and went through - the mind 
boggles at an SCI determination that this re-introduction and vote was improper 
or invalid, especially in the currrent somewhat sensitive context within which 
ICANN is operating.
> 
> Cheers
> Mary
> 
> Mary W S Wong
> Professor of Law
> Director, Franklin Pierce Center for IP Chair, Graduate IP Programs 
> UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW Two White Street Concord, NH 
> 03301 USA
> Email: mary.wong@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Phone: 1-603-513-5143
> Webpage: http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php
> Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network 
> (SSRN)
at: http://ssrn.com/author=437584
> 
> >>> Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx> 01/09/13 2:01 PM >>>
> 
> Another thought experiment.
> 
> There was a recent g-council vote where, in a rare event, the NCSG 
> Policy
Council had decided on an unanimous vote on an issue. But during the vote, some 
voters got confused and voted against.
> 
> Would it have been appropriate for us to demand a re-vote? 
> 
> Had one of us been g-council Chair, would it have ben right for us to 
> just
reschedule the vote without even getting the g-councl to discuss and perhaps 
even vote on the notion of reconsidering the vote?
> 
> A general question, anytime from now on, when a SG or Constituency 
> beleive
that its voters went against the will of the SG/C should they be able to have a 
vote rescheduled at the next meeting?
> 
> avri
> 
> 
> On 9 Jan 2013, at 00:54, Avri Doria wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Even Robert's Rules of Order has rules on when and how a motion can 
> > be
reconsidered or rescinded (10.5). The Board of ICANN has rules on 
reconsideration in the ByLaws. 
> > 
> > One specific requirement for reconsideration under Roberts is that 
> > one
of those on the prevailing side ask for the reconsideration. In this case it 
was the Chair who had been on the losing side.
> > 
> > We need rules on when it is done and on how it should be done.
> > 
> > avri
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 9 Jan 2013, at 00:30, J. Scott Evans wrote:
> > 
> >> I tend to agree,
> >> 
> >> From: Aikman-Scalese, Anne <AAikman@xxxxxxxxx>;
> >> To: 'Avri Doria' <avri@xxxxxxx>; Jeff Neuman 
> >> <Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx>;
gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx <gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx>; 
> >> Cc: Jonathan Robinson <jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
> >> Subject: RE: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
> >> Sent: Wed, Jan 9, 2013 5:27:47 AM
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Hi all,
> >> What I am struggling with procedurally is a basic "Robert's Rules" 
> >> type
inquiry. Namely: - I don't know of anything procedurally that would permit a 
motion that is moved and seconded from being voted on, no matter how obnoxious 
anyone finds the motion to be. I guess this is what we are going to discuss 
tomorrow.
> > 
> > the issue was voting again after it had already been defeated.
> > 
> >> 
> >> I would like to ask whether there are specific provisions in the 
> >> GNSO
Operating Procedures regarding introduction of motions that staff can provide 
prior to our call.
> > 
> > It is all in the g-counci Procedures.
> > And is says nothing on reconsideration or rescinding of decisions
already made.
> > 
> > 
> >> 
> >> Thank you
> >> Anne
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Anne E. Aikman-Scalese
> >> Of Counsel
> >> Lewis and Roca LLP * Suite 700
> >> One South Church Avenue * Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611 Tel (520) 
> >> 629-4428 * Fax (520) 879-4725 AAikman@xxxxxxxxx * 
> >> www.LewisandRoca.com/Aikman P Please consider the environment 
> >> before printing this e-mail.
> >> This e-mail contains legally privileged and confidential 
> >> information intended only for the individual or entity named within the 
> >> message.
> >> If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the 
> >> agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are 
> >> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or 
> >> copying of this communication is prohibited. If this communication 
> >> was received in error, please notify us by reply e-mail and delete 
> >> the
original message.
> >> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 10:16 PM
> >> To: Jeff Neuman; gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
> >> Cc: Jonathan Robinson
> >> Subject: Re: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> I guess I do not support that.
> >> 
> >> I think a motion should only be voted on once. and that to bring it
back, something must have changed or a reasonable amount of time should have 
past.
> >> 
> >> And no we use votes to count the up to the thresholds defined for
motions to pass. We may euphemistically use the word consensus, but it has 
NOTHING to do with consensus. If anything the consensus is in the work of the 
WGs and not in the votes of the management team, i.e. g-council.
> >> 
> >> I believe that what happened in that meeting is something that 
> >> should
never be allowed to happen again. And if we need rules to keep the chair from 
doing things like that, something I admit never entered my imagination of 
things that could go wrong, then we need new rules.
> >> 
> >> A thought experiment: Just imagine the uproar in the council if an 
> >> NCUC
based g-council chair had dared to some like this when the vote did not go her 
way.
> >> 
> >> avri
> >> 
> >> On 8 Jan 2013, at 21:24, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
> >> 
> >>> 
> >>> Avri,
> >>> 
> >>> Yes, I know we use voting to measure consensus. But in the end, 
> >>> the
spirit is to achieve consensus on policy items. The fact that it took two votes 
to do so should not prejudice the results. Again, if there was some evidence of 
wrong doing, fraud etc., that would be one thing. But that did not happen.
> >>> 
> >>> I support the ability to re-vote on any item unless there is 
> >>> evidence
of misconduct, harassment, fraud, etc.
> >>> 
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> 
> >>> Jeffrey J. Neuman
> >>> 
> >>> Sent from iPad. Please excuse any typos.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@xxxxxxxx]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 08:29 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >>> To: Neuman, Jeff
> >>> Cc: gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx; Jonathan Robinson
> >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
> >>> 
> >>> Hi,
> >>> 
> >>> Sorry, that may be what the reviews intended at one point, but 
> >>> that is
not what the current regulations say. Due to the agreement between the SG at 
the time, a very strict voting regime was adopted and approved by the Board for 
the g-council. G-council has such a complicated voting structure that the 
Secretariat has a special tool to help them figure out when a motion has passed 
or not.
> >>> 
> >>> To now claim that g-council is a consensus body does not match the
reality of the situation.
> >>> 
> >>> avri
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On 8 Jan 2013, at 19:37, Neuman, Jeff wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> I will restate what I said on the Council call. We are not 
> >>>> supposed
to as a group focus on voting. We are supposed to come to "consensus" on items. 
If there is a "consensus" at any time of the Council on any given policy 
(provided that the processes were followed by the working group making the 
recommendation), then that is what should govern. The last evolution and reform 
of icann report by the London School of Economics as supported by the Board 
Governance Committee emphasized this over and over again. We are not supposed 
to be a voting body, so lets focus back on consensus.
> >>>> 
> >>>> All of the comments I have seen from those that did not like the
result in the last council meeting have not addressed the fact that ultimately 
there was a "consensus" on the issue. The fact that there had to be a second 
measurement of consensus on the item to me seems irrelevant and unnecessarily 
procedural. There was no abuse of process. There was no abuse within the 
working group making the recommendation. There is not evidence that there were 
improper conflicts, etc. Absent any showing of abuse, harassment, fraud, 
illegality, or willful negligence, I believe having a second measurement of 
consensus is not an issue.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman
> >>>> 
> >>>> Sent from iPad. Please excuse any typos.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@xxxxxxxx]
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 05:31 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >>>> To: gnso-improvem-impl-sc@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Cc: Jonathan Robinson; Neuman, Jeff
> >>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-improvem-impl-sc] New task
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> On 8 Jan 2013, at 17:16, Ron Andruff wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> Assuming that the ultimate desired outcome was for Councillors 
> >>>>> to
vote as they were permitted to (and possibly directed to by their group), two 
remedies were possible.
> >>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> I take real issue with this in that this can only be the case 
> >>>> when it
is accordance with adherence to all rules of neutrality, transparency and 
accountability.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Once a vote is given, it is taken and clues from anyone on how to
make the vote work out better are not, in my view or the view of my stakeholder 
group, legitimate. It is not for voter to decide that they should be able vote 
they way they meant to when they voted another way. If it was, those poor old 
jewish voters on finding out the ballot in Florida was confusing could have 
taken back their votes for Buchanan, and Gore would have been President of the 
US. and yes, we may wish with all our hearts that it had been otherwise, but it 
wasn't. Voting does not work according to wishes unsaid, it works in terms of 
the vote given.
> >>>> 
> >>>> avri
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ----------------------
> >> For more information about Lewis and Roca LLP, please go to
www.lewisandroca.com.
> >> 
> >> Phoenix (602)262-5311 Reno (775)823-2900 Tucson (520)622-2090 
> >> Albuquerque (505)764-5400 Las Vegas (702)949-8200 Silicon Valley 
> >> (650)391-1380
> >> 
> >> This message is intended only for the use of the individual or 
> >> entity
to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended 
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to 
the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying 
to the sender of this E-Mail by return E-Mail or by telephone.
> >> In accordance with Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise 
> >> you
that if this email contains any tax advice, such tax advice was not intended or 
written to be used, and it cannot be used, by any taxpayer for the purpose of 
avoiding penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer
> >> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
>  
> --
> Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
> Member, Board of Directors, CECI, http://www.ceci.ca 
> Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, 
> www.schulich.yorku.ca Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership 
> Foundation, www.gkpfoundation.org NA representative, Chasquinet 
> Foundation, www.chasquinet.org Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, 
> http://npoc.org/
> O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
> Skype: alain.berranger
>  
>  
> AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
> Ce courriel est confidentiel et est à l'usage exclusif du destinataire
ci-dessus. Toute personne qui lit le présent message sans en être le 
destinataire, ou l'employé(e) ou la personne responsable de le remettre au 
destinataire, est par les présentes avisée qu'il lui est strictement interdit 
de le diffuser, de le distribuer, de le modifier ou de le reproduire, en tout 
ou en partie . Si le destinataire ne peut être joint ou si ce document vous a 
été communiqué par erreur, veuillez nous en informer sur le champ  et détruire 
ce courriel et toute copie de celui-ci. Merci de votre coopération.
>  
> CONFIDENTIALITY MESSAGE
> This e-mail message is confidential and is intended for the exclusive 
> use
of the addressee. Please note that, should this message be read by anyone other 
than the addressee, his or her employee or the person responsible for 
forwarding it to the addressee, it is strictly prohibited to disclose, 
distribute, modify or reproduce the contents of this message, in whole or in 
part. If the addressee cannot be reached or if you have received this e-mail in 
error, please notify us immediately and delete this e-mail and destroy all 
copies. Thank you for your cooperation.
>  
> 
> 
>  
> --
> Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
> Member, Board of Directors, CECI, http://www.ceci.ca 
> Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, 
> www.schulich.yorku.ca Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership 
> Foundation, www.gkpfoundation.org NA representative, Chasquinet 
> Foundation, www.chasquinet.org Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, 
> http://npoc.org/
> O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
> Skype: alain.berranger
>  
>  
> AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
> Ce courriel est confidentiel et est à l'usage exclusif du destinataire
ci-dessus. Toute personne qui lit le présent message sans en être le 
destinataire, ou l'employé(e) ou la personne responsable de le remettre au 
destinataire, est par les présentes avisée qu'il lui est strictement interdit 
de le diffuser, de le distribuer, de le modifier ou de le reproduire, en tout 
ou en partie . Si le destinataire ne peut être joint ou si ce document vous a 
été communiqué par erreur, veuillez nous en informer sur le champ  et détruire 
ce courriel et toute copie de celui-ci. Merci de votre coopération.
>  
> CONFIDENTIALITY MESSAGE
> This e-mail message is confidential and is intended for the exclusive 
> use
of the addressee. Please note that, should this message be read by anyone other 
than the addressee, his or her employee or the person responsible for 
forwarding it to the addressee, it is strictly prohibited to disclose, 
distribute, modify or reproduce the contents of this message, in whole or in 
part. If the addressee cannot be reached or if you have received this e-mail in 
error, please notify us immediately and delete this e-mail and destroy all 
copies. Thank you for your cooperation.
>  







<<< Chronological Index >>>    <<< Thread Index >>>

Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Cookies Policy