Re: [gnso-thickwhoispdp-wg] Dangers and risks of thick Whois

[Rick Wesson <rick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Apologies up front. I have a zero tollerance for assertions you are
making below. Those of you that don't know how to use the whois
command or understand statistics might want to delete this note. Since
a number of the examples had to deal with sexual orientation this note
also contains language that you may find offensive.

I found your logic offensive....ymmv

-rick


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> On 29 Jan 2013, at 09:41, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
>
>> Hi Volker,
>>
>> I do not believe that institutional domains -- that is, those owned by an 
>> incorporated body -- are deserving of privacy. Having said that... I'm 
>> generally supportive of the approach -- implemented within the Canadian 
>> ccTLD and elsewhere -- that provides significantly greater privacy to 
>> personal domains than to institutional ones.
>
> I disagree.  There are institutions, such a battered spouse organizations or 
> organizations of gay activists in most of the world that can't afford to have 
> their information made public.

These organizations all have .org names which are either privacy
protected or not.

> One example: I am a member and activist volunteer of APC, Association for 
> Progressive Communications - an Internet Human Rights group.  Its chair, who 
> used to be the person listed in the WHOIS, has gotten phone calls and email 
> death threats based on her WHOIS info, and has submitted statement on that at 
> some point - I will try to dig it up.

please stop with the individual anecdotes with out supporting
documentation. Provide documentation, statistics or STFU. I have zero
tolerance for

    "something happened to someone and I'll try to dig up an email
from 1998 that is meaning less now,
    and I'll do that real soon" BS

If you have a logical assertion, with documentation and scientifically
supportable statistics, send those.

https://www.google.com/search?q=battered+women+support&oq=battered+women+support&aqs=chrome.0.57j0l3.6196&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Every one of the results from the above google search for battered
women use a .ORG name with actual individuals listed. They all support
women that have been raped and have their domains in a registry that
supports thick-whois.

google has about 3,840,000 results. Do I need to review each and every
one of these domains, or will you do that as homework.


>
> Another example: Just recently Russia passed rule that makes any publication 
> related to gay community or people is considered criminal.  should those 
> organization that work on gay issues be barred from protection because the 
> country that holds the thick registry does not guarantee protection for 
> organization of endangered peoples?  Better they should have the option of 
> registering with a registrar in a country that values and protects privacy 
> not only for individuals, but for the organizations of endangered users.

I searched for "gay" at google and found 834,000,000 results. Its hard
to find a domain under .ORG that is somehow endangered people related
to it.

To top it off the .ru TLD does not publish registrants at all


domain:        GAY-TOUR.RU
nserver:       ns1.1gb.ru.
nserver:       ns2.1gb.ru.
state:         REGISTERED, DELEGATED, VERIFIED
person:        Private Person
registrar:     RU-CENTER-REG-RIPN
admin-contact: https://www.nic.ru/whois
created:       2005.05.23
paid-till:     2013.05.23
free-date:     2013.06.23
source:        TCI

Last updated on 2013.01.29 22:21:36 MSK


Had you suggested that gay porno sites need to hide behind false
information. Almost all of the sightes refered by the google search
"gay russian cock sucker" were registered behind proxies mostly under
.com many of which had whois registrations that had invalid whois.

Domain Name: BOY-CUM.COM

 Name Servers:
    ns1.free-lust-gays.com
    ns2.free-lust-gays.com


 Registrant Contact Details:
    PrivacyProtect.org
    Domain Admin        (contact@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
    ID#10760, PO Box 16
    Note - All Postal Mails Rejected, visit Privacyprotect.org
    Nobby Beach
    null,QLD 4218
    AU
    Tel. +45.36946676

-rick


>
> avri
>
>
>>
>> Those registries that are able to make a distinction between personal and 
>> organizational domains ought to be allowed to offer greater privacy to the 
>> former. But if no distinction is offered, then there should be no special 
>> privacy protections.
>>
>> - Evan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29 January 2013 12:26, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Hi Evan,
>>
>>>
>>> On 29 January 2013 11:19, Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I’ve read and heard many times that individuals should be able to have 
>>> domain names and still maintain their privacy.
>>>
>> I agree with this basic premise.
>>
>>>
>>> That's one opinion. Another, said in a previous post by Bob Bruen with 
>>> which I agree, says:
>>>
>>>   "Individuals can still be anonymous, but the domain owner should not be 
>>> (IMHO)".
>>>
>>> Does your site setup protect bloggers any better than privacy/proxy 
>>> services would if they owned domains?
>>>
>>>
>>> The setup gives the bloggers as much privacy as they want. They have 
>>> psudonyms that identify them for repeated comments. They can be contacted 
>>> by visitors to the site without the visitors knowing their email addresses. 
>>> And yet, if we were served with a Canadian court order to divulge we would.
>>>
>>> My point, though, is not that my setup is superior -- rather, its mere 
>>> existence as a counter-example demonstrates that private domain name 
>>> ownership is not a necessary to protect personal freedom of speech. ICANN 
>>> conventional wisdom that I have witnessed often assumes that the two must 
>>> be linked.
>>>
>> So essentially you (and Bob) are saying a blogger that operates his blog 
>> under his own domain name may not protect his own privacy? I believe 
>> strongly that the right to personal data privacy does not end with the 
>> ownership of a domain name. Sure, a blogger may opt for a blogging service, 
>> but most will want their own sites and build their own brands instead of 
>> strengthening someone elses.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Evan Leibovitch
>> Toronto Canada
>> Em: evan at telly dot org
>> Sk: evanleibovitch
>> Tw: el56
>
>