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Re: [Fwd: Re: [gnso-travel-dt] Travel drafting team mailing list open]

  • To: Robin Gross <robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [gnso-travel-dt] Travel drafting team mailing list open]
  • From: cyrilchua@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:22:35 +0800

I agree with Robin.

             Robin Gross                                                   
             org>                                                       To 
             Sent by:                  gnso-travel-dt@xxxxxxxxx            
             owner-gnso-travel                                          cc 
                                       Re: [Fwd: Re: [gnso-travel-dt]      
             10/10/2008 04:56          Travel drafting team mailing list   
             AM                        open]                               

We need to agree to what our over-arching objective is here.

We are not creating some new general "GNSO travel fund" that anyone can
apply for travel funds to attend an ICANN meeting, and if they are poor
enough, they get to go.   This has been, and in my mind should continue to
be, an effort to fund the participation of the GNSO Council at GSNO Council

The depth of the pockets of the individual councilors is not relevant.   We
are funding the participation of an ICANN organ (GNSO Council) - not
specific people.


On Oct 9, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Ken Stubbs wrote:

      Ken Stubbs wrote:

      To the best of my knowledge, some recipients never even attempted to
      show or even claim "need".
      They just made the claim that they complied with ICANN policy and
      never explained how they complied (where is the transparency there?)

      that is beyond "giggle" approaching "laugher"

      I would expect a certain amount of "lobbying" as it is just human
      nature. The principle difference is the appearance of  ability to
      is significantly less with a body independent of council activities.

      I would assume that the committee would be capable of developing
      guidelines  for  requests that would be consistent with ICANN
      policies developed
      for travel subsidization.

      Ken Stubbs
      BTW...I would be inclined to believe that the the former chairman of
      Lehman ($300+millions in compensation over the last 5 years) would
      most probably not qualify for subsidy  ......
      nor would Bill Gates...

      Avri Doria wrote:

            On 9 Oct 2008, at 12:32, Tim Ruiz wrote:

                  If we have to resort to random selection or giggle tests,
                  then we have
                  no business accepting the funds.

            I personally see no relation between the utility of a random
            method of selecting after the constituencies are determined
            their priorities and the notion of meriting support for council
            member travel.

                   Ken's ideas are the best way
                  forward, or at least a good start,

            Can you explain how his ideas would work in a way that was
            assuredly unbiased and objective?

            Some questions that immediately occur to me:

            How would you eliminate the ability of someone to put pressure
            on one of those selected for this independent committee?  What
            does it mean for there to be an independent committee within
            ICANN?  Can members of GNSO constituencies serve on this
            independent committee?  How are these committee members
            chosen?   Is their work transparent?

            As for getting beyond the giggle test in determining need, how
            does one do that.  What sort of verification of someone's need
            will be required?  The get a loan for my daughter's college i
            had to prove need and todo so had to fill out the FAFSA ( see
            http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/before012.htm for a sample worksheet).
            Are you suggesting something similar.  If not, how do you prove

            Or, how do we define need?  If I were a millionaire, but had no
            employer to send me would I be in need of support?  If I have
            an employer, but they are in bankruptcy proceedings, do I have

            I believe these and many other similar questions would need to
            be answered for there to be an objective set of criteria that
            could not be gamed or be subjected to influence.


            note: for those who may not know the giggle test.  Basically
            someone says "I have need", and if they can say it without most
            people starting to giggle, then that need statement i accepted.

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Robin Gross, Executive Director
1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA  94117  USA
p: +1-415-553-6261    f: +1-415-462-6451
w: http://www.ipjustice.org ;    e: robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

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