Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Law, Policing and Punishment aka compliance proposal,aka WIP draft collection

["Ron Andruff" <randruff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

No misunderstanding, Volker. Just voicing my support for what we have under 
David Giza's leadership. Your points are clear. 

Kind regards, 

RA 

________________________________________
Ron Andruff
RNA Partners, Inc.
randruff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.rnapartners.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Volker Greimann - Key-Systems GmbH <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sender: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:26:56 
To: <randruff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; 
'Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx'<Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Law, Policing and Punishment aka compliance 
proposal,
 aka WIP draft collection


Ron, Avri,

I hope I am not misunderstood. I think compliance is doing an excellent 
job given their resources and manpower. There may be some minor issues, 
but overall, it is working remarkably well. Many on the list however 
doubt their effectivity, citing mishandled or unhandled cases of the 
past or the increased workload to be expected in the new gTLD 
environment. The enforcement staff will need beefing up, and this will 
need to be financed not from the common budget, but from the extra funds 
to avoid undue financial stress in other areas. The new gTLD project 
will make enough money for ICANN to allow them to fill up the stocking 
quickly again after the launch.

I agree that the enforcement issue is not the most important issue we 
will have to decide, that will be the code of rules and the penalties 
system. However, it is the issue that will allow many of those still 
doubting the possibility that enforcement is possible to adjust their 
view and come into the camp of those willing to work out a system 
without general condemnation of CO.

Volker

> I couldn't agree with you more in support of David Giza and his team. They 
> have amped up the compliance considerably from what it was.  We now need to 
> get his department the resources he needs to do the work we all want and 
> need. 
>
> Kind regards, 
>
> RA 
>
> ________________________________________
> Ron Andruff
> RNA Partners, Inc.
> randruff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> www.rnapartners.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx>
> Sender: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 17:31:36 
> To: <Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Law, Policing and Punishment aka compliance 
> proposal, aka WIP draft collection
>
>
> Hi,
>
> At a certain point we have to give the relatively new compliance group a 
> chance to show that it really can do the job enforcing the policy we come up 
> with.
>
> Perhaps they are not tooting their own horn enough (maybe they need a 
> vuvuzela), but it does seem like they have become much more effective over 
> the last year and do have successes.
>
> Since many of those who disbelieve are telling stories from the distant past, 
>  perhaps it would be a good idea for those who believe the ICANN compliance 
> team can't do the job to take a new look 
>
> a.
>
> apologies but i will miss at least the first hour of the meeting.
>
>
> On 23 Jun 2010, at 15:53, Volker Greimann - Key-Systems GmbH wrote:
>
>   
>> Milton,
>>
>> I agree completely and I was not trying to propose this and be over with it. 
>> I was proposing a skeleton that we can use to form a body of law that will 
>> have to be enforced in turn. However listening to many concerned voiced from 
>> the RACK and other proposals, many only demand the percentage solution 
>> because they do not believe in ICANN to enforce the rules we draw up. If we 
>> keep the ICANN board to its word that they will implement what we design, we 
>> have gained a lot toward forming an open and innovative consensus without 
>> unreasonable limitations on business models.
>>
>> I reject your demand to "give me the rules" and instead invite you to 
>> contribute your thoughts under the assumption that compliance performance 
>> will be in place.
>>
>> I would hope our consensus will in the end be similar to the open registrar 
>> proposal, fleshed out to take care of every eventuality, combined with 
>> strong enforcement and a good and just system of penalties.
>>
>> I agree with your comment of "first things first". Let us discuss what rules 
>> will be necessary to combat the harms that are related to VI/CO.
>>
>> Volker Greimann
>>     
>>> Huh? Of course compliance is essential. But (and I don't mean to sound 
>>> contrarian) what matters to me is what people are being forced to comply 
>>> with. Give me rules that protect consumers while facilitating open entry 
>>> and business model innovation - then talk about how to make people comply 
>>> with those rules. First things first.
>>> --MM
>>>
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-
>>>> feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:01 PM
>>>> To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [gnso-vi-feb10] Law, Policing and Punishment aka compliance
>>>> proposal, aka WIP draft collection
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe we can try to approach the issue another way, by focussing on the
>>>> one issue most of us can agree upon: Compliance.
>>>>
>>>> Most of us can from what I see from discussions over the previous days
>>>> with everyone I had the opportunity to steal a little time from, we so
>>>> far agree that he most important issue is compliance and enforcement. We
>>>> need a strong and well defined body of law (contract), a competent
>>>> police force (compliance control team) and a tiered penalty system. Once
>>>> we can agree on terms of such a system ownership or control percentages
>>>> will become irrelevant. For many proponents, the topic of compliance
>>>> seems to be the driving motive behind their desire to implement control
>>>> limits even though many of the harms are entirely unrelated to VI and CO
>>>> and can just as likely occur in scenarios of 0 % CO/VI.
>>>>
>>>> I will only list the basic premise we all add to and therefore clearly
>>>> mark the following as:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WORK IN PROGRESS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> THE LAW:
>>>>
>>>> To draw up the law, a codex of rules that applies to every contracted
>>>> partner, from registry to RSP we first need to clearly define the harms
>>>> we intend to prevent and the behavior patterns we believe to be
>>>> undesirable. Extrapolating from these, our lawyer team-members, myself
>>>> included, can adapt the contractual body to combat the harms more
>>>> effectively than any ownership limitation could.
>>>>
>>>> Pilfering shamelessly from the "back-room proposal", a separate contract
>>>> of RSPs will have to be put in place clearly defining the roles and
>>>> obligations of such service providers, as all parties need to be
>>>> contractually bound by ICANN to allow policing.
>>>>
>>>> Rather than focussing on separation percentages, let us focus in the
>>>> text of the law on what we want to achieve/prevent and cast that into a
>>>> text of rules. The contracts will of course require an inclusion option
>>>> to allow revision after a reasonable time of review to either reduce or
>>>> increase requirements.
>>>>
>>>> As not all registries are created equally, we may want to considered a
>>>> tiered system of application requirements, based on market power of the
>>>> created or owning entity, as well as the designated purpose of the TLDS.
>>>> For example, a SRSU TLD will need less stringent initial requirements
>>>> than other x-owned entities.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> POLICE FORCE:
>>>>
>>>> From our meetings I have gathered that many believe that establishing
>>>> an effective police force is the biggest problem. ICANN enforcement
>>>> today is underfunded and understaffed. So we need to make sure that we
>>>> hold Rod to his words given in this weeks introductory speech. Whatever
>>>> we design, ICANN must put in place (and finance). The funds are there,
>>>> but we will need to convince the board that they will have to dip into
>>>> the sacred fund to put a compliance enforcement team worthy of its name
>>>> in place. I agree with pessimists that will claim such a suggestion is
>>>> impossible to get, but hearing various comments from the board and
>>>> having the strong impression that ICANN staff can be persuaded that the
>>>> exchange of cash for success of the program is possible, we need to
>>>> hammer staff in the coming days with the unified demand of this WG: set
>>>> aside some of the money currently sitting in the bank for a strong and
>>>> competent enforcement team. This is heavy-duty lobbying, but united we
>>>> can, nay, must do it.
>>>>
>>>> As we all think that enforcement is lacking this needs to be done in
>>>> either case, no matter what proposal you favor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PENALTIES:
>>>>
>>>> As placeholder for further discussion, I am basing the penalty system on
>>>> criminal justice systems:
>>>>
>>>> Tier 0: Notice and warning: Small fine for minor violation
>>>>
>>>> Tier 1: Fiscal penalty: Minor violations not fixed after notice period
>>>> carrying a pecuniary penalty substantial enough to discourage active
>>>> intent by nullifying all ill-gotten gains.
>>>>
>>>> Tier 2: Doing Time: Repeated minor violations or more substantial
>>>> violations reducing the available contingent for registrations to a
>>>> percentage of the average over the past 12 months
>>>>
>>>> Tier 3: Hard time: Temporary suspension of registration activity,
>>>> possibility of cancellation of contract for RSP, prohibition of carrying
>>>> TLD for registrar in case of severe breach of contract.
>>>>
>>>> Tier 4: Death penalty: Permanent Suspension of entity from service,
>>>> redelegation of all TLDs under management/deaccreditation for active
>>>> intentional misconduct, repeated major breach of contract.
>>>>
>>>> Other penalties may include but are not limited to obligatory audits,
>>>> higher fees and more.
>>>>
>>>> I invite everyone to review these ideas, and consider what to improve,
>>>> change, adapt or reject (and why). I welcome all constructive criticism
>>>> unless you are only interested in protecting your own market share by
>>>> disallowing competition.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Fur Ruckfragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfugung.
>>>>
>>>> Mit freundlichen Grusen,
>>>>
>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>>
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH        Prager Ring 4-12                            Web:
>>>> 66482 Zweibrucken                           www.key-systems.net
>>>> <http://www.key-systems.net/>
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>>>>
>>>> Geschaftsfuhrer: Alexander Siffrin
>>>> Handelsregister Nr..: HR B 1861 - Zweibruecken
>>>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
>>>> us.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>> - legal department -
>>>>
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>> Prager Ring 4-12
>>>> DE-66482 Zweibruecken
>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6332 - 79 18 85
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>>  
>>>       
>> -- 
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Prager Ring 4-12
>> 66482 Zweibrücken
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 861
>> Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
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>>
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>>
>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 1861 - Zweibruecken
>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen 
>> Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder 
>> Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese 
>> Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per 
>> E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Prager Ring 4-12
>> DE-66482 Zweibruecken
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 861
>> Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
>> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>>
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
>> www.key-systems.net/facebook
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>>
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 1861 - Zweibruecken
>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it 
>> is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this 
>> email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an 
>> addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify 
>> the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   


-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Prager Ring 4-12
66482 Zweibrücken
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 861
Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.key-systems.net/facebook
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 1861 - Zweibruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen 
Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder 
Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht 
nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder 
telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Prager Ring 4-12
DE-66482 Zweibruecken
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 861
Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.key-systems.net/facebook
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 1861 - Zweibruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is 
addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this 
email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an 
addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the 
author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.