Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Re: Feedback: Amended Statement on Exceptions for Vertical Integration Group

[Amadeu Abril i Abril <Amadeu@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 12/07/2010, at 17:39, "Roberto Gaetano" <roberto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> 
> A few considerations, proposed to the WG for discussion.
> 
> 1.    Is there consensus on the fact of having a list of exceptions "per
> se"? This does not mean that we must have consensus on every item of the
> list.
> 2.    caro Roberto,

I guess you won't be surprised if my anser is: it depends. 

Exceptions are deoendnet on the rule. And i have no idea what the basic rule 
is. Or where are we heading to. 

But trying to be constructive: yes,i am in favor of exceptions. CORE. Wants a 
basic rule with ownership/control caps. Such a rule NEDS exceptions. Some 
shoukd be "group or automatic exemptions" that is, favorable presumptions basic 
on some easy to control metics. some attempts have been done for so-called SRSU 
or oprhan TLDs. Another one is needed for registries, resgistrars or RSP being o
"on the otheer side" provided that they have little market relevance on other 
TLDsfinally, we ned a procedure for individual exceptions, where the 
presumption is the contrary: no vertical integration beyond the rule. But wher 
the individual case can me bade as to why a) there is need for an ewxception 
(not just convenience) b) this will not reversely affext competiion within the 
TLD. And c) no relevant isues arise reagarding the other issues:/harms we have 
benn discussing (frontrunning, unfair competition, non acceptable uses of 
registrants' data...). note tht he is not ICANN whos hsould prove the rharms, 
but the applicant who should prove the venefits. A huge differenxe

Amadeu
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx 
>> [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller
>> Sent: Sunday, 11 July 2010 22:09
>> To: gnso-vi-feb10
>> Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Re: Feedback: Amended Statement 
>> on Exceptions for Vertical Integration Group
>> 
>> 
>> The more I think about it the more I see a flexible 
>> "exceptions" process as the only way to achieve the 
>> short-term agreement needed to move ahead. It allows us to 
>> agree that the first round of new TLD additions would go 
>> ahead on a presumption of the standard registry-registrar 
>> separation, and then allow applicants to request exceptions, 
>> which are then vetted on a case by case basis according to 
>> some simple criteria agreed by this group. 
>> 
>> Based on that, I like the five bullet points Avri has posted 
>> but I think the list of exceptions is too narrow. Would propose:
>> 
>> * Add SRSU to the list of exceptions. I don't think it is 
>> difficult at all to define what we mean by SRSU and how it 
>> would apply. 
>> * That an "absence of market power" claim should be included 
>> to allow small registries to propose vertically integrated 
>> business models. This could include a registration threshold 
>> (e.g., 50,000 names)
>> * That market power should also be a consideration in denying 
>> exception claims
>> 
>> I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel!
>> --MM
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-vi- 
>>> feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 1:36 PM
>>> To: gnso-vi-feb10
>>> Subject: [gnso-vi-feb10] Re: Feedback: Amended Statement on 
>> Exceptions 
>>> for Vertical Integration Group
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I thank you for the nice words on our joint effort.
>>> 
>>> [Note re On/Off Topic ; while  I compliment you for avoiding the 
>>> On/Off topic Conundrum by changing the subject line and including 
>>> reference to the message inside the body of the message.  However 
>>> since I cannot really tell where On Topic ends and Off 
>> Topic begins, I 
>>> must warn readers that my answer may be somewhat Off Topic.  so if 
>>> they are really pressed for time and canot tolerate things 
>> that may be 
>>> Off Topic, perhaps they should skip the rest of the message]
>>> 
>>> I think there are a lot of examples missing from the list.  
>> There are
>>> certainly things I would like to have included in the 
>> exceptions list 
>>> (e.g. SRSU - but what does that really mean).  But this list was 
>>> supposed to be just a set of examples, and hopefully was 
>> one that most 
>>> would not disagree with at least as a minimal possible set 
>> of examples 
>>> to give a clue as to what sorts of things one might find in such an 
>>> exceptions list.
>>> 
>>> I think we have a whole effort in front of us, assuming 
>> this exception 
>>> doc gets some level of consensus/near consensus, in building a full 
>>> exceptions list and setting the support level for the 
>> various entires 
>>> of the list.
>>> 
>>> I look forward to conversations on how to define the various 
>>> exceptions and the constraints that would need to be 
>> applied to them 
>>> if they were to be accepted as excceptions.
>>> 
>>> In terms of your list:
>>> 
>>> - Bring social benefits:  this is a hard one since i expect most 
>>> everyone will define their TLD as bringing a social benefit of some 
>>> sort.  But I have also noted that we have a large divergence in our 
>>> definitions of social benefit and some things others 
>> consider a social 
>>> benefit I may consider a social detriment. and vice versa.
>>> 
>>> - special treatment for non-profit:  In the Joint ALAC.GNSO WG on 
>>> Support for New GTLD Applicants we have found that the struct 
>>> separation of the TLD issue into the non profit/for profit 
>> baskets may 
>>> not make complete sense if the goal is to support the 
>> public interest 
>>> in developing regions.  While this seems fairly clear when 
>> discussing 
>>> application in the Northern Developed regions, in 
>> challenged regions 
>>> it becomes a little less clear.
>>> 
>>> - Multistakeholder governance of the TLD:  being an advocate of 
>>> multistakeholderism who will often engage in a vigorous and 
>> relentless 
>>> campaign for the multistakeholder principle, I find the 
>> inclusion of 
>>> this very appealing.  But I question whether that is a 
>> characteristic 
>>> of an applicant or a constraint one places on an applicant. 
>> Also in 
>>> the full definition of multistakeholder goverance, government is 
>>> usually included and I am not sure that this would necessarily be 
>>> reasonable in the case of VI in new GLTDs.  So some sort of 
>> modified 
>>> notion would need to discussed and the the reelvance of the 
>> constraint 
>>> would also need to be discussed to see if there was consensus on it.
>>> 
>>> a.
>>> 
>>> On 11 Jul 2010, at 11:45, Constantine Giorgio Roussos wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello Avri,
>>>> 
>>>> Excellent work on the working group for Vertical Integration. I 
>>>> would
>>> like to thank you for your most recent message:
>>>> 
>>>> http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-vi-feb10/msg02504.html
>>>> 
>>>> I think you are spot on for the exceptions and would like to add 
>>>> some
>>> more points.
>>>> 
>>>> I think some initiatives and new entrants who are newcomers, have
>>> innovative business models need to be given the opportunity 
>> to create 
>>> social benefits and bring competition in both the domain and their 
>>> respective industries e.g music.
>>>> 
>>>> I would like to add some exceptions that:
>>>> 
>>>>    * Bring social benefits and are in the public interest 
>> (for .music
>>> the public interest is the music community and the music 
>> community's 
>>> public interest is music fans).
>>>>    * Special treatment to non-profits or organizations that work in
>>> the best interests of their constituents by not auctioning 
>> out all the 
>>> sought out premium domain names and using them to benefit 
>> registrants.
>>> For example, the band "Beatles" would have beatles.music and would 
>>> have their content/products/services in rock.music (genre), 
>>> liverpool.music (city), British.music (geography), 
>> English.music (language) and so on.
>>> All premium domains will be used by all .music registrants 
>> for their 
>>> best benefit to be discovered and for social benefits and 
>> to cut down 
>>> search costs by using direct navigation
>>>>    * Neutral multi-stakeholder governance with fair representation
>>>> 
>>>> I have been pushing all these points for a long time and 
>> would love
>>> for the technology that I have been building for the last 6 
>> years to 
>>> be used for the best benefit of the music community as well 
>> as to be 
>>> given the opportunity to make the ICANN launch a 
>> successful. I think 
>>> we should be pressing for introducing social benefits and 
>> helping new 
>>> entrants have a chance against the monopolies/status quo. I 
>> would love 
>>> to be given the chance to show how a TLD can compete, not 
>> just in the 
>>> domain space, but the music space and discovery space where 
>> companies 
>>> such as Apple and Google have dominance (like 
>>> Verisign/Afilias/Goadaddy have in the domain business).
>>>> 
>>>> Great work,
>>>> 
>>>> Constantine Roussos
>>>> .music
>>>> www.music.us
>>> 
>> 
>