RE: [gnso-rap-dt] revised WHOIS note

["Neuman, Jeff" <Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx>]

I believe getting the data will be important, but as we have seen
before, once the data comes in, it can be sliced in a large number of
ways depending on the side you are on.  

One key point to note is that whether there is a link or not between
proxy services and criminal activity, there is certainly a strong
perception in a number of communities that there is a link and that
standards should be developed to come up with best practices to guide
registrars operating proxy or anonymous WHOIS services, especially as it
relates to revealing the true identity of the registrant when one
perceives that that registrant has wronged a third party.  They believe
that so long as there is a predictable, standardized process to retrieve
that information, so they can pursue the appropriate legal remedy, then
may be adequate.  

I am not commenting on whether this is in the scope of this group or not
(as I have not recently read the charter), but just stating what others
have shared with me.

Jeffrey J. Neuman, Esq.: NeuStar, Inc.
Vice President, Law & Policy 


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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-rap-dt@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-rap-dt@xxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of eckhaus jeff
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:13 PM
To: 'Rod Rasmussen'; James M. Bladel
Cc: Roland Perry; gnso-rap-dt@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-rap-dt] revised WHOIS note


Rod,

Could you provide the data and the findings to the group that you
reference regarding the studies by "Spamhaus, SURBL, Knujon, and several
academic anti-spam and ant-crime researchers" along with the methodology
used.

I think the Working Group would like to see the quantifiable data and as
a registrar I would love to see the findings and details so that we can
help the community if there is a need here.



Thanks

Jeff





-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-rap-dt@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-rap-dt@xxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Rod Rasmussen
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:37 PM
To: James M. Bladel
Cc: Roland Perry; gnso-rap-dt@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [gnso-rap-dt] revised WHOIS note


James,

Spamhaus, SURBL, Knujon, and several academic anti-spam and ant-crime
researchers have tied use of proxy registrations to criminal domain
usage - especially in the case of pharma and other high-volume spam.
The privacy services are also victimized in these cases, as the
criminals do not (conveniently) provide their real details.  By using
the privacy service though, they can avoid having to come up with
randomized patterns for their fake whois, as their criminal
registration details are hidden in with legitimate ones as far as the
public can tell.  This has a negative impact on those privacy
registration services, as their reputation is impinged by criminal
behavior, so there is a natural incentive for those types of services
to do a better job screening applicants (I would point to GoDaddy as a
provider that does a good job keeping such actors out in general by
the way).  The question is (and this is asked and speculated on widely
within the security community) is whether there are some "fake",
"complicit", or "clueless" privacy services out there that facilitate
such activities.  I'm not sure about the status of that research -
I'll ping some of my friends in the anti-spam biz on that.

Rod

Rod Rasmussen
President and CTO
Internet Identity
1 (253) 590-4088

On Jul 21, 2009, at 3:16 PM, James M. Bladel wrote:

>
> But does this not present the paradox of a criminal entering
> fraudulent
> WHOIS data, and then purchasing (or stealing) Proxy Services to
> obscure
> that fraudulent data?
>
> Or, does this scenario presume that a (not very bright) criminal will
> operate a fraudulent website, but enter their -valid- contact
> information behind a Proxy service?  This is analogous to someone
> burglarizing an darkened home, but leaving their wallet behind.
>
> My point in all of this is simply that I am not aware of any
> quantifiable data that establishes a clear and conclusive link
> implicating proxy / privacy services and criminal behaviors.  In fact,
> the recent SSAC report seems to indicate that these services provide
> some security benefits for registrants versus hijacking / compromised
> accounts.
>
> Thanks--
>
>
> J.
>
>
>   -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rap-dt] revised WHOIS note
> From: Roland Perry <roland@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, July 21, 2009 2:16 pm
> To: gnso-rap-dt@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
> In message
>
<20090721111333.9c1b16d3983f34082b49b9baf8cec04a.870be0e1f5.wbe@xxxxxxxx
c
> ureserver.net>, at 11:13:33 on Tue, 21 Jul 2009, James M. Bladel
> <jbladel@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes
>
>> I guess I'm not clear on what is meant by "Abuse of WHOIS proxy
>> services." Do you mean bad actors using fraudulent / stolen data to
>> open these accounts, or compromised accounts?
>
> earlier Mike said:
>
> #particularly when registrars are providing the service and do not
> #divulge underlying WHOIS info upon reasonable evidence of abuse, as
> #clearly required by the RAA.
>
> Meanwhile, as someone who tries to help victims of e-crime, I find the
> proxy-WHOIS is very often used to obscure the fraudster's details. I'm
> aware that they might just be hiding false details, but shouldn't
> registrars be doing more checks on such things? For example, where a
> domain is paid for by a Credit Card, making available as default the
> address details used to verify that payment.
> --
> Roland Perry
>
>