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Re: [gnso-thickwhois-dt] weekly status report
- To: "Drazek, Keith" <kdrazek@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: Re: [gnso-thickwhois-dt] weekly status report
- From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:23:04 +0200
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Keith,<br>
<br>
I agree that cross-border transfers of data would be an issue for
registries switching to a thick model, however all registrants
have allready agreed to the publication of the data, and in many
cases also to a transfer abroad due to many registrar policies
having been written with both thick and thin models in mind.
Registrants also agreed to be bound by policy changes. Still, the
issue is not negligible. Maybe it could be solved by the registry
by setting up data centers in such jurisdictions where data
transfer would be problematic, and the central register only
pointing to the geographic location of the domain, just as
currently they point to the individual registrars? <br>
<br>
This is an issue that needs more thought.<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
Volker,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks
for the insight. It sounds like there could be multiple
models of Whois Data authority, which seems
appropriate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Another
question around the “authoritative” issue concerns privacy
laws and anticipated cross-border transfers of data.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For
a TLD that has always had Thick Whois, the rules were
established (and presumably accepted by the registrants in
their registration agreement with the registrar) from their
initial launch date. The registrants in those TLDs gave
their consent for the data transfer upon registration of
their domain name(s).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">However,
transferring personal Whois data for 100+ million
registrations from scores of international jurisdictions to
a single entity could raise additional privacy concerns. The
question of which entity in which jurisdiction has
“authority” over the Whois data may need to be considered by
the WG and should not necessarily be presumed to be the
registry in every case, dependent upon national laws and the
range of service offerings across various
registries.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks,
Keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:10.5pt"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#006AAA">Keith
Drazek</span></b><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#6B6D71"><br>
Director of Policy<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:kdrazek@xxxxxxxxxxxx";>kdrazek@xxxxxxxxxxxx</a><br>
<br>
m: +1-571-377-9182<br>
21345 Ridgetop Circle Dulles, VA 20166<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.verisigninc.com/";><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#006AAA;text-decoration:none">VerisignInc.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Volker Greimann [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 24, 2012 1:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Drazek, Keith<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx";>Gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx</a> PDP
DT<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-thickwhois-dt] weekly status
report<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Keith,<br>
<br>
I see your point, but I do not believe it to be as much of
an issue as you make of it. The registry in any thick
whois TLD is the central repository of all whois data,
regardly of where it was registered. The registrar is
responsible to provide the data to the registry.
Verification can be assumed and performed by either. In
the new RAA, registrars will most likely assume some of
the responsibility, but the launch of .XXX has show this
can also be performed on a registry level. In fact, some
ccTLDs such as .US also perform routine validations on the
registration requirements.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, we have now seen cases where a "thick
registry" has made modifications to the registration based
on court orders or other events, which were not always
notified to the registrar, i.e. left the registrar
database out of synch with the registrar database, yet
these changes were authoritative as far as the ownership
of the domain is concerned. Whereas registrars must always
update the registry to effect a change of data in a thick
TLD. In other words, as the registry database is the last
word on the data, it should be the authoritative source.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tim
raises an important point, including the question of
whether registries or registrars are authoritative for
Whois data.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
have concerns about a registry being authoritative for
Whois data when it has no direct connection to the
registrant. As discussed on our last call, the registry
receives Whois data from the Registrar, not from the
registrant. As such, the registry has no way of
independently confirming/verifying/validating that the
data is accurate. I think this distinction becomes more
of an issue if there’s a future requirement for
validation or verification of registrant Whois data, as
requested by the GAC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ultimately,
having a Thick Whois database at the registry level only
centralizes the data…it doesn’t make it any more
accurate, validated, verified, etc. since registries
simply accept what is submitted by the
registrars.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
understand that some of the existing thick registries
may already be authoritative for their TLD’s Whois data,
so perhaps we can benefit from their
experience.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This
issue may or may not fit into the draft charter, but
it’s probably worth discussing further on our next
call.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks,
Keith</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part1.02020101.06020806@key-systems.net"
alt="Verisign" height="2" border="0"
width="371"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:11.25pt 0in 15.0pt 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:10.5pt"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#006AAA">Keith
Drazek</span></b><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#6B6D71"><br>
Director of Policy<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kdrazek@xxxxxxxxxxxx";>kdrazek@xxxxxxxxxxxx</a><br>
<br>
m: +1-571-377-9182<br>
21345 Ridgetop Circle Dulles, VA 20166<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.verisigninc.com/";><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#006AAA;text-decoration:none">VerisignInc.com</span></a>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:11.25pt 0in 0in 0in"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape
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</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:owner-gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx";>owner-gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:owner-gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx";>mailto:owner-gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tim Ruiz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 24, 2012 12:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mike O'Connor; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx";>Gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx</a>
PDP DT<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [gnso-thickwhois-dt] weekly
status report</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Thanks
Mikey,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Sorry
I haven't been able to make the calls, one thing or
another has come up. I think the current draft and
changes look good but I do have one
comment/concern.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">It
seems to assumes if all regitries are thick that
registrars will still be required to maintain a set
of WHOIS data themselves. However, if the registries
are all thick and authoritative for WHOIS data then
I see no reason why a registrar should continue to
be required to maintain a duplicate set of the data,
especially since it will also be escrowed by the
registry. I would think a number of registrars would
find it useful and cost effective to simply use a
registry's authoritative data instead of trying to
maintain it themselves. And I can easily see an
effort by registrars to change the RAA and/or
policies to reflect that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">So
I don't think the PDP group should assume that both
registrars and registries will continue to maintain
the data. It may be good to note that possibility.
Or alternatively, that may be a question they want
to consider. I don't think it would necessarily be
out of scope since it is tightly associated with
whether all registries are thick or not, but others
may have a different opinion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Tim </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">--------
Original Message --------<br>
Subject: [gnso-thickwhois-dt] weekly status report<br>
From: "Mike O'Connor" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mike@xxxxxxxxxx";>mike@xxxxxxxxxx</a>><br>
Date: Sat, September 22, 2012 10:03 am<br>
To: "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx";>Gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx</a>
PDP DT"<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx";>Gnso-thickwhois-dt@xxxxxxxxx</a>><br>
<br>
hi all,<br>
<br>
here's the status report for this week. i *think*
we're wringing out the last issues in the draft.
so this would be a good time to take a look at the
latest version. what seems to be working well is
to run your ideas through the list so then we can
work through them on the call. here's a link to
the draft i pushed out after the last call.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-thickwhois-dt/doc3QzSkLIUIQ.doc";>http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-thickwhois-dt/doc3QzSkLIUIQ.doc</a><br>
<br>
and here's the status report. i'm hoping we can
get to a draft we can push out for a consensus
call by the end of the meeting on Thursday.
<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
<br>
mikey<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>
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Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
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--------------------------------------------
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Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
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