Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Group on documenting "harms"

[Jothan Frakes <jothan@xxxxxxxxx>]

I agree with this approach.

Some have argued that there are items on the 'harms' list that are
present solely for exacerbating FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, & Dread) about
things other than the status quo.

We need to expose things that are real or hypothetical for what they
are and their severity/impact so that we can gain any ground on the
real 'harms' and get past any that are FUD.

There may be actual harms that are present in the "FUD" that are being
dismissed out of hand and might merit some actual attention.  Other
harms might be purely irrelevant or so extreme as edge cases that
they'd be unlikely to appear.

Let's socialize them, measure them, and use that exercise and its
product as a basis for next steps.


On 7/28/10, Antony Van Couvering <avc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I don't think it is that difficult to identify consumer harms.
> Registries/registrars are probably quite adept at identifying harms to
> themselves.   Others may be good at pointing out what hurts consumers.
> Whoever is doing the identifying, a showing of either logic or evidence can
> move it from the "I fear that" to the "there is some chance" or "there is a
> good chance" column.  An opinion without evidence or logic is basically
> worthless.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 28, 2010, at 7:02 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I also disagree with Jeff. I am all for putting all potential harms on the
>> table, define the harms specifically and discuss their likelyhood and
>> possible solutions. I do not think excluding anyone from this work or
>> assuming they may be less qualified is helpfulat this stage. Lets hear
>> from all and then figure out together what is what.
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>> So Jeff, are you saying that only incumbent registries/registrars are
>>> 'qualified' enough to evaluate the likelihood of harms caused by new and
>>> different registration business models, some of which cannot be known?
>>>
>>> That sounds self-serving, to say the least.
>>>
>>> Mike Rodenbaugh
>>> RODENBAUGH LAW
>>> tel/fax:  +1 (415) 738-8087
>>> http://rodenbaugh.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neuman, Jeff
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 6:32 AM
>>> To: 'avri@xxxxxxx'; 'Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx'
>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Group on documenting "harms"
>>>
>>>
>>> Avri,
>>>
>>> I would not be in favor of this group assessing how likely the harms
>>> would be as I do not believe opinions coming from those that never
>>> operated a registry and a registrar together have any true basis by which
>>> to make a judgment.  I think our job would be to figure out what harms
>>> there are out there and how to address them.  But I fail to see how
>>> qualified we are as a group to assess how likely it will be for a
>>> registry that operates a registrar to engage in bad behavior.
>>>
>>> An extreme analogy.  You take a loaded pistol and put it in front of 100
>>> people.  Can our group assess the percentage of those people that will
>>> actually use it on someone?  The answer is probably, no, we have no
>>> ability to do that.  However, we can address the what if scenario by
>>> saying, we can mitigate the potential harm by (1) making sure there is
>>> bullet proof glass in front of the 100 people, (2) making sure that the
>>> pistol is loaded with blanks....etc.
>>>
>>> Maybe not the greatest analogy, but the point is that I do not believe
>>> this group is qualified to opine via a poll as to the likelihood of
>>> certain harms, but it can figure out ways to address them.
>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman, Esq.
>>> Vice President, Law&  Policy
>>> NeuStar, Inc.
>>> Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx<owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx<Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Wed Jul 28 01:48:29 2010
>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Group on documenting "harms"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 Jul 2010, at 03:06, Antony Van Couvering wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let's prioritize for harms that are dangerous AND most likely to occur.
>>> I think after the Harms Sub Team lists all of the possible harms, setting
>>> these two values may be a good use for another of Mikey's polls were we
>>> each rate the degree of harm (H)  and the likelihood of  the harm
>>> occurring (L) on a 5 point scale.
>>>
>>> then to arrive at the ranking factor =  H * L
>>>
>>> and then averaging and showing range for each defined harm.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> a.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>> - Rechtsabteilung -
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-- 
Jothan Frakes
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