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RE: [soac-newgtldapsup-wg] Review of draft report

  • To: "'soac-newgtldapsup-wg@xxxxxxxxx'" <SOAC-newgtldapsup-wg@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Subject: RE: [soac-newgtldapsup-wg] Review of draft report
  • From: <tijani.benjemaa@xxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 13:41:12 +0100

Dear all,

 

Sorry for the late comment : I began to comment yesterday morning, but was 
interrupted by urgent business.

Please find attached my comments After Alan, Avri and Evan’s ones.

 

I also commented on the flow chart last week.

 

See you on the call

 

----------------------------------------------------------

Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations

Phone : + 216 70 825 231

Mobile : + 216 98 330 114

Fax     : + 216 70 825 231

----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

De : owner-soac-newgtldapsup-wg@xxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:owner-soac-newgtldapsup-wg@xxxxxxxxx] De la part de Evan Leibovitch
Envoyé : lundi 22 août 2011 17:13
À : Alan Greenberg
Cc : Robert Hoggarth; soac-newgtldapsup-wg@xxxxxxxxx
Objet : Re: [soac-newgtldapsup-wg] Review of draft report

 

Hi Alan.

You're welcomed to the PDF -- as attached below -- but the PDF conversion 
destroys the comments.

I'll try to add there here, with the intent that Robert and others who are 
having a hard time with the comments can match these segments with the 
appropriate places on the Report.

RH: Robert
AG - Alan
AD - Avri
EL - me

Hope this helps.



A.4.a

AG: The expression “…to support this call” is curious. However, my main comment 
is that the first substantive line in the report should NOT be that the WG has 
changed its mind.

How about just saying “In line with the recommendation of the GAC and the ALAC, 
the WG recommends that the application fee for Support-Approved Candidates be 
reduced to $47,000.”

AD:  indeed it is a refinement, not a change of mind.

EL: I am suggesting wording that indicates that the fee-reduction 
recommendation follows through on what the MR2 said, bolstered and made 
specific by the GAC/ALAC statement (which will need a shorthand and citation 
since it may be referred to multiple times)

A.4.b 

AG: I am not sure what we are saying here. Are we suggesting even more 
discounts if the proposed gTLD is in a small or underserved language? Or is 
this a veiled suggestion that bundling multiple languages should be further 
discounted? Regardless, are we saying that whatever the benefit, it should go 
to “small languages” and “underserved languages”? I don’t really know what a 
“small language” is.

EL: I share Alan's confusion. I have suggested wording which may be more in 
line with discussions which have taken place over the multiple-IDN-application 
issue.

A.4.c

AG: Are we making a specific request, or just less?

EL: This line confused me too. ICANN does not have any say over fees charged by 
registry providers. For this to have meaning it would be to recommend ICANN 
requiremenrts of service providers (for SACs) which can be then translated into 
reduced costs to applicants.

A.4.d

AG: I think it is foolish for us to ask for a deferment if tunnelling will 
indeed satisfy the need (I am not sufficiently knowledgeable to know if 
tunnelling will suffice, but others seem to think so). Even if it is ugly, we 
should simply make a strong statement that well-priced (or free) services must 
be available. 

AD: I agree with you but I expect there are still good reasons for supporting 
the removal of the requirement.  This may go down as mixed support.  IT is one 
where we probably will not prevail, but it is worth saying it so that the 
middle position, pre-announced statement that tunnels are ok ..., does not 
become one of the negotiating positions.

EL: I think that there is full support for some kind of help related to iPV6. 
Whether that means deferment or other means is the source of disagreement. I 
don't think we want to advocate against the common ICANN religion that IPV6 
must be enabled in some way by all new applicants. We can suggests charges to 
the pace of rollout or ways to reduce the cost. I think talking about a 
different pace of rollout looks better than asking for “deferment”

A.5

AG: I thought that our prime focus was to get the requirement lowered to the 
cost of a really basic continuance service (ie, keep the TLG running). If we 
support that strongly, is the duration that important so as to warrant this 
position in the list?

AD: I think this was one means of achieving that goal.


A.7 (staggered fees)

RH: WG members have discussed keeping this paragraph.  Keeping it for now [ed]

AG My persona feeling is that it should be coached with language saying that if 
the advice of the AGAC, ALAN and this WG is not followed and the fees are not 
reduced, then staggered fees are mandatory.

I understand that some people do not want to show weakness by allowing for this 
option, but I feel we are not doing our job if we do not accept that the Board 
may choose not to follow the advice.

AD: Agree.
   ps. i like AGAC, ALAN)

EL: I disagree with offering recommendations as a menu (well, this is what we 
want, but but you want to choose to ignore our advice we'll give you any out). 
I disagree with having this being there... but if it is I suggest wording that 
makes it clear that staggered fees are not our primary recommendation. Indeed, 
I will suggest a "plan B" for the report even though I am against a Plan B in 
the report.

A.12 (2nd para in "framework")

AG: Hasn’t the program already been approved? If so, this clause should simply 
read “immediately”

AD: agree

EL: agree.
(a) and (b) are redundant if worded properly


A.12.a

AG: No closing bracket.

AD: I think we still have a decision to make here or retaining the language 
here, moving it to a note or removing it.  I suggest leaving it here and 
removing the brackets.  Yes, the task of doing this remains with the staff, but 
the oversight of making sure it is done and done properly should belong to the 
TBD Board established Fund committee

EL: Agree with AD.


A.12.f

AG: Not sure if we should use the term seed here. The tone of the preceding 
discussion is that the main sources would be auctions and such, with perhaps 
donations from others.

AD: and we already have the seed, the Board's contribution!

EL [ make change to the text to reflect ]


A.14

AG: I would weaken this one. Perhaps something like: In support of 11f, 
consideration should be given to contract with a professional …

EL: The Bylaws allow the Board to acquire any expertise they need to perform 
their duties. So we're stating the obvious.


A.17 (seconnd para under "donors")

EL: I really dislike the wording of this paragraph
- “A lot money”
- “There is a lot of funding available”
- worst of all, passive verbs.
This particular paragraph seems to lack the polish of the rest of the document, 
and hints at envy. We should simply note that ICANN has created wealth and that 
meeting sponsorship at least indicates that some are willing to give back.

A.23 (under self-funding requirements)

AG: We varyingly use $47k and $45k. We need to pick one and go with it. I 
suggest $47 as that was the number in the GAC/ALAC recommendation.

AD: agree.

EL: Me too. Don't know where $45K came from...

----- (2nd comments)

AG: The references to short term usage are confusing and if used, needs to be 
better defined.


AD: short term usage can be replaced by  'to meet cash flow requirements for 
the actual administration of the application process.

EL: Since this is an explanation behind the recommendation and not part of the 
recommendation itself, I suggest that sections 21-27 be moved to an appendix

---- (3rd comments, inserted after A.27)

AG: I find the entire discussion of how to fund the fee reduction confusing. I 
can propose a simpler way of presenting it which I think will amount to about 
the same thing.

1. Presume that no more than 18% of the applications will be eligible for 
support.
2. For every 100 applications, those paying the full fee (82) will contribute 
$2.050m towards sunk cost repayment.
3. The maximum fee reduction is 18 x $138. = $2.484m of which only 2.034m will 
go to offset actual costs (18 x (138-25)).
4. Since ICANN is receiving all of the fees at the start, there is no cash flow 
issue until the very end of the process.
5. Assuming there are auction proceeds as expected, they will be used to repay 
the (up to) $2.034m.
6. If there are insufficient auction proceeds, ICANN will defer the repayment 
of sunk costs.

The only challenge is to limit the funded applicants to 18%. But if this is 
really a problem, then ICANN has more problems with the new gTLD program than 
this one.


AD: I disagree, because this makes it sound like the other applicants are 
supporting the JQA.  The point is that what is supporting this is future  
auction funds etc, with the cash flow dealt with by using the Risk and reserve 
allocations .  This is a fundamental difference.

EL: Agree with Avri. But I still think the whole discussion / justification of 
the recommendation should like outside the recommendation document itself, in 
an appendix.


B.30 (under non-financial support)

AG: Given the timing that we are discussing (with support being granted 
probably shortly before applications are due, is this reall practical in the 
first round?

AD: I think so.  there are several months until Jan 12, and there is the time 
before the end of the application period in which to help people.

EL: Agree with Avri. Also consider that, if the fee reduction is implemented, 
it is these kinds of costs that will be the main uses of the foundation / funds.


B.30.h (translation)

AG: This is incorrect. The current draft is published in Chinese, French, 
Spanish and Russian as well as English. I don’t know if there are plans for 
additional languages. I do believe that the application will need to be in 
English though.

AD: I.e we already achieved this.  We should indicate that this requirement 
from our MR! is being met, we appreciate it, and commend that it remain the 
practice.

EL: I think my suggested wording helps bridge the gap. The appliocation may be 
need to be in English but the AG itself may need to be translated into any 
script(s) in which the applicant wants to operate.

B32.f (relaxed VI)

AG: The current requirements are pretty relaxed as it is .What addditonal 
relaxations are being suggested here?

AD:(-:  I.e another already achieved goal.

EL: [ Deleted point from redline doc ]


[ THE DETAILED NUMBERING APPEARS TO STOP WITHIN A VERY LONG SECTION 32, PLEASE 
FIX]

Page 15, under "Directory and referral services only for Support-Approved 
Candidates, point B"


AG: Needs to be either stated clearly or omitted.

EL: [suggested modified text]


B.34

AG: I thought that we received a comment from the AOS or at least one RIR that 
this was simply not going to happen. 

AD: I believe we should still approach the ASO.  There is bully pulpit they can 
provide to encourage LIR and ISP to provide this help.  Also when I brought 
this issue up at the ASO report at the  Singapore meeting, i was told the the 
JAS WG and ASO should talk.  Or at least that is what I remember, would need to 
go back and read the transcript again to be sure.  We should reword, but not 
eliminate.  and we should talk to them.


B.42

AG: Although I support the intent of this section, the timeing is problematic. 
The new gTLD application as filed must give sufficient indication of the RSP to 
allow ICANN to evaluate their credentials. How can this be done in a scenario 
where there is just an intent to create the RSP?

AD: I suggest it is important that it remain in, but it should be something we 
encourage proposal to the SARP on.  So rewording and perhaps moving.

EL: Agree. I'll think of ways to rework this.


B.45

AG: Entire section needs wordsmithing. "Candidate" is defined as the applicant 
but criteria varyingly refers to the applicant or the TLD character string or 
the proposed registry (the last two implying the contents of the application).

Perhaps can be fixed by replacing “candidate” by “candidate, or as applicable, 
the proposed registry or character string”.

AD: we need to get the JAS approved terms into a glossary and use them.

B.47.d

AG: Id “sponsorship” the proper word here? I thought we were not using the 
concept for the new gTLD process (as opposed to the previous rounds).

AD: good point about t word sponsored's baggage but i can't think of a better 
word at this moment.  We do whant them to have this kind of sponsorship even if 
it does not mean the same thing as sTLD,.

B.48

AG: Missing intro sentence “The candidate must NOT be:”

B.49

AG: This line (gov’t or para-statal) is not a heading but one of the items. a) 
to f)

B.49.f

This is not one of the items under para49 but is a proviso for the entire 
eligibility section. Probably needs to go at the top instead of the bottom.

B.54

AG: Need clarity here whether “conventional application” is referring to one 
that is asking for and receiving support under this present report, or an 
application that is paying the full fee.

B.55

AG:Since we are saying a “preference” should be given, perhaps add a note 
saying that originating from one of these developing areas is neither 
sufficient nor mandatory to qualify. That should add some flexibility and 
remove the worry that a unreasonable applicant from Singapore will not qualify.

AD: should we be saying that this, and the Diaspora requirement arte necessary 
but not sufficient?

B.56

AG: Unimaginable is too strong. They clearly are being imagined. Impractical??

AD: agree

EL: agree

B.57

AG: This cannot be the “PRIMARY” criteria, since we have already given two 
required criteria and financial was 2nd.I would suggest word “a crucial” to 
replace “the primary”.

AD: it is  a necessary condition

B.57.d

AG: $45k per what? Startup cost, annual? 

B.58

AG: Is this the final WG position? I am actually happy with it, but since no 
specific criteria are listed, it will be a purely subjective evaluation.

An alternative is to say we wpuld prefer some level of specificity, but baed on 
the skills and knowledge available on the WG, have been unable to provide such 
details.

AD: I think the guide for applicants need to say what these will be.  And I 
think the the WG along with Staff should negotiate this.  But after the Final 
report is submitted as part of the WG participation in the implementation phase 
of the program.

B.59

AG: This is now out of date. The joint GAC/ALAC statement made it clear that 
they were advocating support of any level of government other than national 
government.

AD; agree


B.63

AG: We need clarity here whether the support that is to be repaid includes the 
fee discount or just the financial support provided over and above the fee 
reduction. Also, if this applies only to “financial” support, it should be 
explicit.

AD: Agree.  I think that the fee reduction is NOT in the category of need to be 
repaid as that will be 'repaid' by auction and other funds.

A.67 (section lettering reverts to "A" in my doc)

AG: I think that we typically use recommendation instead of suggestion.

AD: agree

A.69

AG: This is quite different from what was discussed at the last meeting, and I 
don’t recall anyone putting this time-line process instead of the one where the 
review preceeds application.

AD: actually i recommended it and continue to do so.  It is a timing issue.  
People will not be ready with application for funding any sooner that Jan 12,.

A.70

AG: The AoC review teams have had markedly different mixes of people from the 
various ACs and SOs. At the least we should recommend a suggested mix.

The process will also be hard-put to ensure that we have the right mix of 
talents.

Personally, I am not at all sure that this process is optimal. As stated on 
calls, I am quite concerned about meeting commitments. Just look at the 
difficulty we have had in getting work out of this WG.

Lastly, we need to decide what the basis will be for making decisions in the 
case of lack of unanimity.


AD: I think a hybrid of professional and ICANN experienced is the right mix.  I 
do not want the ICANN staff to be the ones chosing the professional members fo 
the group.  That has to be done by volunteers+staff.

A.72

AG: Paid or unpaid?


GENERAL COMMENT BEFORE THE FAQ:

AG: Having completed the review of the core report, I see there is no mention 
of changing the continuity requirements to be far more modest. Eric had 
reported that there was ongoing discussion in some other group, but do we 
really want to leave it solely up to them?

AD: well there was the one mention earlier.  but this is a good point. I guess 
there was not contributed text on it for Seth + Rob to cut into the report.








On 22 August 2011 11:27, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The miniaturized comments seems to be an OpenOffice "feature".  Comments can be 
read by copying them and pasting in a non-formatted text file (in Windows, 
notepad works). But this is an exceedingly time-consuming task and I, for one, 
do not have the time to do that today.  If OpenOffice can display them 
(although Avri found it did not when she re-opened I think), can someone please 
make a PDF so that the comments can be read by all. 

Evan, if you could read all of our comments and presumably your owm, can you 
make a PDF from that document?

Alan



At 22/08/2011 09:57 AM, Robert Hoggarth wrote:



Thank you Evan.  I had completed a new version of the draft encompassing and 
attempting to address Alan and Avri's comments.  I will review your input and 
make additional changes so that we can have a new master document starting with 
tomorrow's WG call.

I am still experiencing difficulty reading comments in the document. Although 
instances where you have added text is clear,  I connect read any comments in 
the right margin - even Alan's original ones. I am hopeful that I am the only 
one experiencing this format difficulty, but I am doubtful.  Perhaps a format 
guru on the WG has discovered a format work–around.

Perhaps you should stop at page 22 and then contribute additional comments and 
suggested edits after tomorrow's call.

Best,

RobH

From: Evan Leibovitch <evan@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 01:46:58 -0700
To: " soac-newgtldapsup-wg@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:soac-newgtldapsup-wg@xxxxxxxxx> " 
< SOAC-newgtldapsup-wg@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:SOAC-newgtldapsup-wg@xxxxxxxxx> >
Subject: Re: [soac-newgtldapsup-wg] Review of draft report

Here's my two cents so far.

Added comments to Avri's and Alan's, and where appropriate have put in redlined 
changes that IMO address the concerns.

I only got to page 22 so far. But here's what I have.

 

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