Re: [gnso-pednr-dt] Post expiry domain email functionality.

["Michele Neylon :: Blacknight" <michele@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 25 May 2010, at 20:09, Sivasubramanian M wrote:

> 
> Siva
> 
> Pay who and how?
> 
> Bearing in mind that you're talking about registrants who haven't renewed 
> their domain names ...
> 
> There are several models by which an external email service could offer such 
> a service. Just as there is a free version and business version of a service 
> such as gmail, a basic level of email service could be offered free to 
> Registrants by gmail / msn / yahoo (if they are interested in a subscriber 
> base of 150 million domain Registrants, increasing). The service provider may 
> offer optional subscription plans for value added services. 
> 
> If it is icann / an icann supported email server, the Registrant could pay an 
> additional email surcharge in cases where he renews the domain after an 
> interruption. Here there is an issue of the Registrants who choose not to 
> renew the domain names at all. The cost of email service provided to the 
> Registrants who choose not to renew domain names has to be factored into the 
> cost of those who do renew their domain names. 


I honestly can't see how anyone would collect this money .. 



>  
> 
> 
> > or it will be a service offered on a neo-Interent-business model by a 
> > company such as Google or MSN or it will be an ICANN supported service by a 
> > third party.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > It is not necessary to abruptly discontinue email service in a post 
> > > expiry situation.
> >
> > Until you can answer the key question about who is going to pay for it then 
> > it is going to be necessary
> >
> > Just because it's technically "possible" doesn't render it viable and the 
> > email exchange clearly supports the view that we have all been promoting 
> > for months. It makes MORE sense for the registrant to simply renew the 
> > domain name in a timely fashion.
> >
> > I agree that it makes more sense for Registrants to renew their domain 
> > names in time. But I am concerned about those Registrants (even if they are 
> > a smaller proportion) whose domain names expire unnoticed.
> 
> And so you expect this "magical" email service to "know" where the mail is 
> meant to go?
> 
> The mail need not go anywhere, the mail traffic inwards, directed to the 
> domain now comes to the external email service provider / icann server. It 
> stays there, until the Registrant establishes his ownership, either by prior 
> anticipatory registration with this post expiry email service or if he had 
> failed to do that, by some other manner of authentication. At this point of 
> time, whether or not the Registrant has still renewed his domain name or not, 
> the email log in functionality is facilitated for the Registrant. He can keep 
> it on the server or download it to his email client.
>  
> 
> You also expect people to be able to access it as well I assume?
> 
> How?
> 
> After establishing that he is the Registrant, he will be able to access it 
> the same way he accesses any other email service

Sorry, but I honestly can't see how that is going to work

A single domain could be serving thousands of users. It could even be serving 
multiple subdomains with multiple MX records, each one in turn serving hundreds 
if not thousands of mail users.

While you can use wildcards for A records I don't think you'd be able to do the 
same with MX records (you can't even use an IP address for an MX record)

We've got less than 30 people connecting to mail, but our setup would give a 
lot of people grey hairs - and I suspect we're not alone.

The overhead, in terms of man hours, technical support etc., far outweigh any 
potential benefit

In any case, it is technically impossible for the mail service to be 
uninterrupted to the user, so I honestly can't see how your concept is anyway 
better than the mail simply ceasing to function.

Put another way

If I send email to domainx.tld and get a bounce or other error (could be host 
not found - doesn't really matter) then I know that the email hasn't reached 
the destination, so I can take other action to ensure that the message gets 
through (I could resort to telephone, fax or whatever)

However, if all mail for a domain is being directed into a "magical" service 
then I won't know that the mail hasn't reached the destination.

Sure, it *might* be somewhere on a server somewhere, but since the recipient 
doesn't even know there is an issue yet they've no way of accessing the email.


> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Also your suggestion in this email exchange suggests that ICANN would 
> > somehow want to get involved with an "icann owned or icann-assigned server" 
> > (sic) is disturbing.
> > Do you even understand what ICANN's role is in all this?
> >
> > What is wrong if I want ICANN to get involved in an ICANN owned or 
> > icann-assigned server? It is not disproportionately expensive and it is a 
> > direct service to domain Registrants about whom ICANN is supposed to care !
> 
> 
> How are you qualified to decide what is expensive and what isn't?
> 
> We are talking about 150 + million domain names of which half or more domain 
> names might also be used for email.  To assure a certain level of perpetuity 
> for 70 or 75 million (and increasing) email enabled domains, the cost of 
> setting up and maintaining a redundant / fall back email server may not be 
> proportionately expensive and can be built into ICANN's cost recovery 
> calculations. 

No it can't

It's completely outside ICANN's remit to start concerning itself with services 
that may (or may not) be attached to a domain name.


> 
> Just to satisfy my own curiousity ...
> 
> How many mail users do you currently manage?
> 
> How many mail servers do you currently manage?
> 
> How many mail servers have you configured? 
> 
> I have configured email accounts within my own domain names using cpanel. But 
> if you ask me if I am a Technical Authority with expertise in setting up an 
> email server from scratch, I am not. 

So why do you want to present a set of impractical and technically improbable 
solutions about a set of things that you don't fully understand?


If you had limited yourself to stating that you'd like to see email still 
working, but couldn't see how I'd have left it be, but what you have been 
suggesting is completely unworkable.

> 
> But anyone technically qualified may find that I am not altogether wrong.

I, however,  am technically qualified and I have been trying to  point out that 
your theories are that - theories. In reality they would be impossible to 
implement in a manner that would bring any benefit to anyone

Of course if you don't believe me I'd highly recommend that you join one of the 
many email admin groups and ask around.

Regards

Michele



> 
> Thank you.
> Sivasubramanian M
>  
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The email exchange is attached as a PDF for the committee to act upon 
> > > futher.
> >
> > What committee?.
> >
> > Sorry, I meant WG. This PEDNR WG
> 
> OK
> 
> >
> > Sivasubramanian M
> >
> >
> >
> > Mr Michele Neylon
> > Blacknight Solutions
> > Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
> > ICANN Accredited Registrar
> > http://www.blacknight.com/
> > http://blog.blacknight.com/
> > http://mneylon.tel
> > Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
> > US: 213-233-1612
> > UK: 0844 484 9361
> > Locall: 1850 929 929
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
> > -------------------------------
> > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
> > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
> >
> >
> >
> 
> Mr Michele Neylon
> Blacknight Solutions
> Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
> ICANN Accredited Registrar
> http://www.blacknight.com/
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
> http://mneylon.tel
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
> US: 213-233-1612
> UK: 0844 484 9361
> Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
> -------------------------------
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
> 
> 
> 

Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
ICANN Accredited Registrar
http://www.blacknight.com/
http://blog.blacknight.com/
http://mneylon.tel
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
US: 213-233-1612 
UK: 0844 484 9361
Locall: 1850 929 929
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845