ICANN ICANN Email List Archives

[gnso-vi-feb10]


<<< Chronological Index >>>    <<< Thread Index >>>

Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft - Registrant Harms

  • To: "Neuman, Jeff" <Jeff.Neuman@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft - Registrant Harms
  • From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:49:51 +0200


In a way, the likelyhood of a harms is irrelevant. Effectively, all harms, no matter how likely must be taken seriously. What is relevant is how a solution to mitigate or prevent the harm can be structured.

Also, I would like to point out that many of the proposed harms are not really harms in themselves. Take the much feared data sharing as an eample. In itself, data sharing between registrars and registries is not a harm at all. However, the abusive use of shared data can and should be considered a harm.

Volker
I was 100% opposed to this notion when it was first raised and remain 100% opposed to 
this notion now.  It is irrelevant in my mind how likely people in this group believe a 
harm is to occur.  As the people in this group are generally not the ones likely to 
commit one of these harms (At least I believe), how are we to "guess" as to how 
likely something will occur.  The more appropriate conversations we should be having is 
recognizing the harms and figuring out ways (if at all) to prevent the harms.

Jeffrey J. Neuman
Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law&  Policy


The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the use 
of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information. If you are not the intended recipient you have received this 
e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying 
of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication 
in error, please notify us immediately and delete the original message.



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Avri Doria
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft - Registrant Harms


hi,

I stil thank that getting a survey of how likely people think these harms are  
(on a scale of 1 - 5)  and how dangerous they think they are  (on a scale of 1 
- 5)  is a good idea.  I would then like to see the quotient of those two 
factors and the range and stddev.

We may each have our opinion on a particular harm and how it relates in some 
particular jurisdiction and at some point in time.  I would like to see some 
methods used to get at least the WG's statistical view on the idea.

Getting a wider view might be interesting as well.  I am not terribly worried 
about a deficiency in views of those who might not have followed everything 
(and how many people in the group have really followed _everything_?).  A 
bigger pool of respondents would be interesting, though then I would suggest 
adding a question on whether one considered themselves an informed member of 
the group or not.

a.


On 11 Aug 2010, at 17:36, Roberto Gaetano wrote:


I haven't seen any comments on this, neither pros nor cons.
It could be a good idea, although I have mixed feelings about going to the
general public for some input, as the positions of people who have not
followed completely the debate might be misleading.
Opinions?
R.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ron Andruff
Sent: Wednesday, 04 August 2010 23:59
To: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft - Registrant Harms


Having spent some time quietly reading through the list of
harms noted on Jeff E's initial list (thanks also from my
side for kicking this off, Jeff!) I wonder if we should
consider putting up a Wiki and inviting the entire community
to weigh-in on harms they are aware of/perceive.  That would
give the WG the benefit of a more fully fleshed out list,
while allowing a broader range of contributors to bring their
concerns forward in a transparent manner.  We also need to
consider that many currently listed 'other' harms are denoted
in 2 or 3 word phrases (e.g., 'front running',
'warehousing') and these all need to be defined accurately as well.

Is this a more comprehensive way to approach this?  Do we
have time for such a thing?

Kind regards,

RA

Ronald N. Andruff
RNA Partners, Inc.




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jeff Eckhaus
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:03 PM
To: tim@xxxxxxxxxxx; Stéphane Van Gelder;
owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: Kathy Kleiman; Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft - Registrant Harms


For those who missed the call today, Tim is correct. We are
currently accumulating the list of harms, that is all



-----Original Message-----
From: tim@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tim@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 3:46 PM
To: Stéphane Van Gelder; owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx; Jeff Eckhaus
Cc: Kathy Kleiman; Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft - Registrant Harms

Who is we? There is more than one proposal on the table and
*we* the WG have made no recommendations. In any event, I
didn't think this was agreeing or disagreeing with anything
yet. Just accumulating the harms we all see.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Stéphane Van Gelder<stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>
Sender: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:22:38
To: Jeff Eckhaus<eckhaus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Tim Ruiz<tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Kathy
Kleiman<kKleiman@xxxxxxx>;
Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx<Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft - Registrant Harms


Just a comment on Tim's first point. I don't agree if, as we
have proposed, the vertically integrated registry/registrar
is not allowed to sell in its own TLD. In that case, the
competitive environment remains.

Stéphane

Envoyé de mon iPhone4

Le 2 août 2010 à 22:22, Jeff Eckhaus
<eckhaus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  a écrit :

Thanks. Will add to the list and please keep sending to me

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Ruiz [mailto:tim@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 1:19 PM
To: Jeff Eckhaus
Cc: Kathy Kleiman; Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft - Registrant Harms

Jeff,

These are the harms that I believe are likely:

Higher prices - Each gTLD is a monopoly of that name space,
competition
within that name space has been provided by registrars.
Allowing a gTLD to vertically integrate, operate both the TLD
and the channel, relieves pressure on the gTLD operator to
keep prices low that typically come from competing registrars.
Lower level of stability, security, and service for the
same reasons
noted
above.
Creation of complex structures and relationships will be
difficult or
impossible to enforce. ICANN will have several new compliance
issues to deal with regarding dozens and likely hundreds of
new gTLDs - IPv6, DNSSEC, new IP protection mechanisms/tools,
and possibly other new rules regarding malicious conduct.
Compliance is not merely a matter of money, there is a
practical limit to what ICANN the organization or community
can optimally keep up with.
100% vertical integration - or anything goes - negates the
justification
for registrar accreditation and for consensus policy. Only
minimal technical requirements on DNS provisioning and
resolution services would be needed.
Lack of innovation - vertical integration or high levels of
co-ownership
only further entrench the incumbent registries and
registrars, leaving little incentive for new service
providers (back end, registrars, etc.) to be created.
Note that this is not a comprehensive list of the harms I
believe are
likely.
Tim

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft - Registrant Harms
From: Jeff Eckhaus<eckhaus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, August 02, 2010 1:56 pm
To: Kathy Kleiman<kKleiman@xxxxxxx>, "Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx"
<Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx>


Kathy ,

Thanks for adding to the list, would be great if you could add some
explanation on how these harms are a result of allowing VI or CO.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Kleiman [mailto:kKleiman@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:49 AM
To: Jeff Eckhaus; Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft - Registrant Harms

Hi All,
I appreciate Jeff E. taking the first crack at this
difficult issue. I
am
still reviewing his Summary of Harms, but wanted to note that
one category seems to be missing - and "Registrant
Harms/Consumer Protections." I realize that these issue may
be implicit in other points, but I think we should definitely
make them explicit.
As a first stab under "Registrant Harms/Consumer
Protections" I would
include:
- Reduced choice, access and availability of domain names
- Higher prices for domain names
- Reduced access to registrars (who might operate in registrants'
language, currency and customs)
- No clear avenue for compliance enforcement by those who are
concerned
about violations
Best,

Kathy Kleiman
Director of Policy
.ORG The Public Interest Registry
Direct: +1 703 889-5756 Mobile: +1 703 371-6846

Visit us online!
Check out events&  blogs at .ORG Buzz!
Find us on Facebook | dotorg
See the .ORG Buzz! Photo Gallery on Flickr See our video library on
YouTube
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
Proprietary and confidential to .ORG, The Public Interest
Registry. If
received in error, please inform sender and then delete.



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeff Eckhaus
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 2:02 PM
To: 'Gnso-vi-feb10@xxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [gnso-vi-feb10] Harms Project Draft

All,

I have made my first pass at drafting the harms that have been
mentioned,
discussed, presented, whispered since the beginning of the VI
discussions a few years ago. I believe I have captured most
of the harms but this list is not final or complete, just a
draft and a start. I have used ICANN presentations, DAG
comments, and other GNSO lists as well as one on one
discussion. I have copied some of the main sources of the
harms list in the document itself and have the links if
anybody cares to read the complete source documents.
I specifically did not mention market power or list harms that are
exclusive to market power, but that was just a choice I made,
if others want to add on to the list, please feel free,
remember this is brainstorming mode.
The one harm I did specifically leave out is the strategy
of auctions
of
premium names or the initial holding back of reserved names.
The decision to hold back premium names and auctions is an
action by the Registry will occur regardless of VI/CO and is
not a consequence or result of VI/CO. You can read the recent
TLD strategy put out by Afilias (RACK supporter) here where
they say this is an important strategy in launching your TLD.
http://www.circleid.com/posts/new_tld_application_tip_launch_strategie
s/


If someone feels there is some way an auction can be influenced or
altered
due to VI then please add that to the list, since that could
be a potential harm.
That being said, I would like to reiterate that this is
brainstorming
on
the harms and would like you to add to this list, if
necessary, but please no deletions. Once complete we can work
on editing, ranking, sorting, predicting and deciding if
these are harms at all, harms related to Vertical
Integration, only in your own TLD and whatever other
mechanisms we choose.
Have great weekend everyone


Jeff Eckhaus




Please NOTE: This electronic message, including any attachments, may
include privileged, confidential and/or inside information
owned by Demand Media, Inc. Any distribution or use of this
communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s)
is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
sender by replying to this message and then delete it from
your system. Thank you.
Please NOTE: This electronic message, including any attachments, may
include privileged, confidential and/or inside information
owned by Demand Media, Inc. Any distribution or use of this
communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s)
is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
sender by replying to this message and then delete it from
your system. Thank you.

Please NOTE: This electronic message, including any attachments, may
include privileged, confidential and/or inside information
owned by Demand Media, Inc. Any distribution or use of this
communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s)
is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
sender by replying to this message and then delete it from
your system. Thank you.

Please NOTE: This electronic message, including any
attachments, may include privileged, confidential and/or
inside information owned by Demand Media, Inc. Any
distribution or use of this communication by anyone other
than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may
be unlawful.  If you are not the intended recipient, please
notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete
it from your system. Thank you.






--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.key-systems.net/facebook
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 1861 - Zweibruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede 
Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist 
unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per 
E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.key-systems.net/facebook
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 1861 - Zweibruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is 
addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this 
email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an 
addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the 
author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.







<<< Chronological Index >>>    <<< Thread Index >>>

Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Cookies Policy