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RE: [gnso-osc-csg] RE: Actions/Summary: 07 March 2010 NairobiMeeting

  • To: "Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx>, "Papac, Krista" <Krista.Papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] RE: Actions/Summary: 07 March 2010 NairobiMeeting
  • From: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:22:05 -0400

I have been following the discussion on the topic of term limits for
various Constituency/SG positions and have come to the conclusion that
we are spending an awful lot of time on this issue.  Maybe it will be
helpful if we back up and consider what our task is in this regard.  Our
overall objective is to make recommendations regarding how to implement
the Board approved GNSO recommendations with regard to Stakeholder
Groups and Constituencies.  From the checklist that we developed (see 
https://st.icann.org/data/workspaces/icann-osc/attachments/constituency_
operations_team:20090301154146-0-8526/original/Draft%2520OSC-CSG%2520WT%
2520Board%2520Recommendation%2520Checklist.doc
<https://st.icann.org/data/workspaces/icann-osc/attachments/constituency
_operations_team:20090301154146-0-8526/original/Draft%2520OSC-CSG%2520WT
%2520Board%2520Recommendation%2520Checklist.doc> ) for the CSG WT, the
only one that seems to apply here is this one: " 

Operating principles should ensure constituencies function in a
representative, open, transparent & democratic manner."  If we go back
to the Board approved recommendations themselves (
http://www.icann.org/en/topics/gnso-improvements/gnso-improvements-repor
t-03feb08.pdf
<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/gnso-improvements/gnso-improvements-repo
rt-03feb08.pdf> ), in particular Section 6, here are the ones that I
think apply in this case followed in each case with my personal comments
in italic font:

1.      
        "Our goal is to make the way in which stakeholders interact in
the GNSO, whether organized as constituencies, interest groups or
another vehicle, as inclusive and representative as possible, without
sacrificing effectiveness or efficiency." (last paragraph p.39) -
Whatever we recommend regarding term limits, they should in our best
judgment not sacrifice effectiveness or efficiency.
2.      
        "At present, each constituency has a different set of membership
and operating processes, and it is difficult for an individual to have a
quantifiable impact on the policy process other than through a
constituency. . . . One solution is for each constituency to have a
clearly communicated set of participation rules and operating principles
that are based on common principles developed by the GNSO." (3rd to last
paragraph on p.42) - Is there a common principle that we can agree on
regarding term limits that can be applied generally to all
constituencies and SGs? I think that the quoted statement from the Board
recommendation document in item 4 below may give us this common
principle.
3.      
        "The reviews of the GNSO suggest that there is a need for
greater transparency within constituencies and greater consistency
across constituency structures. The constituencies should take the lead
in formulating common operating principles, with participation from the
Council and staff. Within certain broad and important guidelines, there
can still be room for innovation and differentiation in the detailed
procedures developed by each constituency that best meet the needs of
that constituency." (Last paragraph on p.42 to p.43) - Note that not
everything has to be standardized for all constituencies and SGs so we
need to try to find a balance between common practices and flexibility
to deal with the diversity of constituencies and SGs.
4.      
        "There should be term limits for constituency officers, so as to
help attract new members and provide everyone with the chance to
participate in leadership positions." (2nd to last bullet on p.43) - As
commented in item 3 above, I believe that this is a general principle
that can be applied regarding term limits.
5.      
        "As noted, constituency procedures should establish term limits
for constituency officers in order to help attract new participants by
providing individuals with more opportunity to participate in leadership
positions. This is similar to the rationale for the GNSO's decision to
establish term limits for Councilors. These and other steps can help
improve the global distribution of constituency participants and elected
GNSO representatives, along with focused, ICANN staff-supported,
constituency participation recruitment efforts for officers and GNSO
Councilors (see LSE Rec. #5; Sharry Rec. #3)."  (last paragraph on p.43
to p.44) - This adds a little more clarity to item 4.  It seems to me
that it is a good goal to "improve the global distribution of
constituency participants" in all areas of constituency and SG
operations while still maintaining enough flexibility to accommodate
differences.

Based on the above, I would suggest that we recommend the following:
There should be term limits for all constituency and SG leadership
positions that do not exceed four years.  Here is my rationale:

*       
        I fully understand the difficultly of finding leaders who have
the time and are willing to devote the time to serve in leadership
capacities so I agree with those who argue against term limits that are
too short; also there is a steep learning curve, so it is useful to
minimize too rapid turnover.  Along this same line, it may be helpful to
note that the Board is currently planning to lengthen Board terms for
some of the same reasons.
*       
        I also understand the risk of capture within groups.  Depending
on the organizational structure, capture may occur at different levels
of leadership, so it seems to me that it makes sense to apply  the Board
recommendation of term limits to all leadership positions.  I would add
that the issue of capture was a concern before the very first DNSO
constituencies were formed over ten years ago.
*       
        I see no need to proscribe how constituencies or SGs apply the
term limits.  If they think that four one-year terms meet their needs,
fine. If two 2-year terms works or if one 4-year terms is decided to be
the better approach, fine. If constituencies or SGs want to establish
term limits shorter than four years, I believe they should have that
freedom even though I think that goes counter to my rationale in the
first bullet above.
*       
        If a constituency or SG does not have enough members to allow
for turnover of leadership at least every four years, then I wonder
whether they are truly representative of the broader community they
supposed to represent.  I clearly understand that there will always only
be a minority of of individuals who can and will step up to the plate to
lead, but if any of our groups are so small that this becomes a serious
problem, then there probably needs to be more outreach within the group
and outside the group as applicable, which I believe is CSG WT Task 2.
*       
        Finally, I believe that term limits not to exceed four years
would accomplish the Board approved recommendations regarding term
limits and the goals articulated in that regard without compromising
effectiveness or efficiency.

My apologies for the lengthy message, but I hope it helps.
 
Chuck
 
P.S. - I don't know if I just overlooked it, but I don't think that our
wiki has a link to the Board approved recommendations.  Seems to me that
should be added in an easy to find way.


________________________________

        From: owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rafik Dammak
        Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 3:54 AM
        To: Papac, Krista
        Cc: Victoria McEvedy; zahid@xxxxxxxxx;
owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx; Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
        Subject: Re: [gnso-osc-csg] RE: Actions/Summary: 07 March 2010
NairobiMeeting
        
        
        Hello All, 

        I am little surprised that the most active groups (and those
having strong interests in domain names) sounds having problems to find
people who can commit and volunteer :)

        let's say that the 2 years term and 2 terms limitations is the
worse case, but if Registrar group want 1 year term, it is up to them.
if the limitation is 3 years in office which is less than 4 years (2+2
in GNSO) it may be accepted too.


        we need to find common ground, I am really worried that we are
keeping exceptions every time for each recommendation and making them
too much weak with all these rewording . 
        @Krista it is important to mandate a length of time for term,
otherwise there is a risk  capture  and less accountability.

        Regards

        Rafik
        
        2010/3/19 Papac, Krista <Krista.Papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        

                1.      It is not easy to find people who can commit to
two-year terms.  In the case of my SG, we already need three people who
can commit to two-year terms if we extend the requirement to the EC
also, it means we now need seven people who can make such a commitment.
This is not practical or easily done. 
                2.      I don't believe it is the GNSO's purpose nor
their goal to tell GROUPs what their term limits should be, but rather
to develop common principles.  Term limits are a common principle and
should be applied, but how does the GNSO know what is an appropriate
term limit for a given group? 
                3.      I don't understand why we feel it is appropriate
to mandate any length of time for a term.  Victoria, why do you feel so
strongly about setting the term limit and/or setting it to two-years? 
                4.      I agree with Zahid, it is not a matter of status
quo or interest.  It is a practical matter. 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                Krista Papac 
                Iron Mountain Digital 
                5530 Bandini Blvd 
                Bell, CA  90201  US 
                Home Office: +1.714.846.8780 
                Mobile: +1.714.865.7655 
                Fax: +1.323.443.3573 
                krista.papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:krista.papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  

                 

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170569.html> 

                 

                
________________________________


                From: owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:
owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Victoria McEvedy
                Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 3:23 PM
                To: zahid@xxxxxxxxx; Papac, Krista; 
owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx; Rafik Dammak

                

                Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
                
                Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] RE: Actions/Summary: 07
March 2010 NairobiMeeting

                

                 

                Simpler, standardized and easier to understand Groups
should be less logistically challenging for all.     

                 

                 

                Victoria McEvedy

                Principal 

                McEvedys

                Solicitors and Attorneys 

                 

                 

                96 Westbourne Park Road 

                London 

                W2 5PL

                 

                T:    +44 (0) 207 243 6122

                F:    +44 (0) 207 022 1721

                M:   +44 (0) 7990 625 169 

                 

                www.mcevedy.eu  

                Regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority #465972

                This email and its attachments are confidential and
intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s).  This email and its
attachments may also be legally privileged. If you have received this in
error, please let us know by reply immediately and destroy the email and
its attachments without reading, copying or forwarding the contents.

                This email does not create a solicitor-client
relationship and no retainer is created by this email communication. 

                 

                From: Zahid Jamil [mailto:zahid@xxxxxxxxx] 
                Sent: 18 March 2010 22:18
                To: Victoria McEvedy; Papac, Krista; 
owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx; Rafik Dammak
                Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
                Subject: Re: [gnso-osc-csg] RE: Actions/Summary: 07
March 2010 NairobiMeeting

                 

                Its not a matter of status quo or any interest. It will
be a logistical challenge just to implement such a situation.

                
                
                Sincerely,
                
                Zahid Jamil
                Barrister-at-law
                Jamil & Jamil
                Barristers-at-law
                219-221 Central Hotel Annexe
                Merewether Road, Karachi. Pakistan
                Cell: +923008238230
                Tel: +92 21 5680760 / 5685276 / 5655025
                Fax: +92 21 5655026
                www.jamilandjamil.com
                
                Notice / Disclaimer
                This message contains confidential information and its
contents are being communicated only for the intended recipients . If
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distribute or copy this e-mail.
                Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you
have received this message by mistake and delete it from your system.
The contents above may contain/are the intellectual property of Jamil &
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Jamil is prohibited.
                
                
                Sent from my BlackBerry(r) wireless device

                
________________________________


                From: Victoria McEvedy <victoria@xxxxxxxxxx> 

                Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:13:16 +0000

                To: zahid@xxxxxxxxx<zahid@xxxxxxxxx>; Papac, Krista<
Krista.Papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx<
owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx>; Rafik Dammak<rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx>

                Cc: Julie Hedlund<julie.hedlund@xxxxxxxxx>;
gnso-osc-csg<gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx>

                Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] RE: Actions/Summary: 07
March 2010 NairobiMeeting

                 

                But is our mission to recreate or justify the status
quo?  

                 

                It seems we may have lost sight of the BGC's aims here.


                 

                If the recommendations are to be no more than everyone
can do their own thing as long as they record it in their charters
----we have wasted a great deal of time and effort. 

                 

                 

                Victoria McEvedy

                Principal 

                McEvedys

                Solicitors and Attorneys 

                

                 

                96 Westbourne Park Road 

                London 

                W2 5PL

                 

                T:    +44 (0) 207 243 6122

                F:    +44 (0) 207 022 1721

                M:   +44 (0) 7990 625 169 

                 

                www.mcevedy.eu  

                Regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority #465972

                This email and its attachments are confidential and
intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s).  This email and its
attachments may also be legally privileged. If you have received this in
error, please let us know by reply immediately and destroy the email and
its attachments without reading, copying or forwarding the contents.

                This email does not create a solicitor-client
relationship and no retainer is created by this email communication. 

                 

                From: owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:
owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Zahid Jamil
                Sent: 18 March 2010 22:04
                To: Papac, Krista; owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx; Rafik
Dammak
                Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
                Subject: Re: [gnso-osc-csg] RE: Actions/Summary: 07
March 2010 NairobiMeeting

                 

                I agree with Krista. The BC similarly has varying term
limits of EC compared to Councillors -we even have variance in between
councillors.
                
                

                
                
                Sincerely,
                
                Zahid Jamil
                Barrister-at-law
                Jamil & Jamil
                Barristers-at-law
                219-221 Central Hotel Annexe
                Merewether Road, Karachi. Pakistan
                Cell: +923008238230
                Tel: +92 21 5680760 / 5685276 / 5655025
                Fax: +92 21 5655026
                www.jamilandjamil.com
                
                Notice / Disclaimer
                This message contains confidential information and its
contents are being communicated only for the intended recipients . If
you are not the intended recipient you should not disseminate,
distribute or copy this e-mail.
                Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you
have received this message by mistake and delete it from your system.
The contents above may contain/are the intellectual property of Jamil &
Jamil, Barristers-at-Law, and constitute privileged information
protected by attorney client privilege. The reproduction, publication,
use, amendment, modification of any kind whatsoever of any part or parts
(including photocopying or storing it in any medium by electronic means
whether or not transiently or incidentally or some other use of this
communication) without prior written permission and consent of Jamil &
Jamil is prohibited.
                
                
                Sent from my BlackBerry(r) wireless device

                
________________________________


                From: "Papac, Krista" <Krista.Papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 

                Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:35:37 -0400

                To: Rafik Dammak<rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx>

                Cc: Julie Hedlund<julie.hedlund@xxxxxxxxx>;
gnso-osc-csg<gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx>

                Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] RE: Actions/Summary: 07
March 2010 Nairobi Meeting

                 

                Hello Rafik,

                 

                I do not think EC term limits have to consistent with
GNSO term limits.  In fact, in the RrSG our current term limits are
different than our GNSO term limits.  RrSG EC term limits are one-year
terms, with a consecutive three-year restriction in the same office.  I
think it is widely accepted that GNSO Councilors serve two-year terms,
but elected EC officials vary.  Sometimes it is difficult to get an EC
official to commit for such a lengthy term - and at the end of the day,
I feel any and all term limits should be as set out in the Charter of
the GROUP.  Although, since the GNSO Councilor office affects most/all
GROUPS I can see a need for a consistent policy there.

                 

                I hope that helps.

                 

                Thanks,

                Krista 

                 

                Krista Papac 
                Iron Mountain Digital 
                5530 Bandini Blvd 
                Bell, CA  90201  US 
                Home Office: +1.714.846.8780 
                Mobile: +1.714.865.7655 
                Fax: +1.323.443.3573 
                krista.papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:krista.papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  

                 

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Planning and Negotiation

                Gartner advises: "It is also important that the licensee
continue to track the software vendor's financials and viability
annually, because any signs of financial problems would justify the cost
of verification services." Continue reading the full report at: 
http://www.gartner.com/technology/media-products/reprints/ironmountain/1
70569.html
<http://www.gartner.com/technology/media-products/reprints/ironmountain/
170569.html> 

                 

                
________________________________


                From: Rafik Dammak [mailto:rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx] 
                Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:01 AM
                To: Papac, Krista
                Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
                Subject: Re: [gnso-osc-csg] RE: Actions/Summary: 07
March 2010 Nairobi Meeting

                 

                Hello Krista,

                 

                 

                do you think that EC shouldn't comply to term
limitations which is applied to GNSO council itself?

                 

                Rafik

                2010/3/15 Papac, Krista <Krista.Papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

                All,

                 

                Here are my suggested changes to Part II, Section 4a.
Additions are bracketed in red capital letters and deletions are
stricken through in red.

                 

                4. Elections 

                a. All  {GROUP} {CHARTERS SHALL CLEARLY DELINEATE HOW)
{ELECTED POSITIONS}, including representatives to Stakeholder Group
{EXECUTIVE COMMITTEES} and the GNSO Council, shall {BE ELECTED, WHAT THE
TERM LIMITS ARE FOR EACH POSITION, AND MAXIMUM NUMBER OF} have a maximum
two year limit and a maximum of two consecutive terms {IN THAT  THE SAME
POSITION}. {ANY OTHER PROCEDURES RELATED TO ELECTIONS OR EXCEPTIONS TO
ELECTION PROCEDURES MUST ALSO BE DESCRIBED IN THE GROUP CHARTER.}  An
Officer who has served two consecutive terms must remain out of office
for one full term prior to serving any subsequent term {IN THAT SAME
POSITION   {GROUPS}  MAY} elect terms and term limits below these
maximums at their discretion. {WHEN CIRCUMSTANCES DEMAND EXCEPTIONS TO
THIS REQUIREMENT. EXCEPTIONS MAY ONLY BE MADE WITH SUPPORT FROM
TWO-THIRDS MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERSHIP.}
                b. It is recommended {GOING FORWARD} that  {GROUPS}
publish and maintain a list of all Office holders, past and present, {
{GROUP} members and to provide transparency for term limits.

                 

                I also want to comment on Part II, Section 1c.  I
believe we may have closed this section out, but since I was unable to
make the calls due to the reschedule time I am providing my comment to
the WT in hopes we can make a change.  This section (pasted below)
refers to Executive Committees and term limits.  From the perspective of
the RrSG, this section should also refer to the Group Charter, rather
than dictating what term limits are. I have suggested changes below.
Additions are bracketed in red capital letters and deletions are
stricken through in red.

                 

                1. Executive Committees: 

                a. All Executive Committees must promptly publish action
points, decisions and any resolutions to constituency members. It is
recommended that prompt publication means within a reasonable period and
a guideline is between 72 hours and 1 week of the relevant meeting.
                b. All Executive Committees must publish to constituency
members their rules and procedures, decision making process and
criteria.
                c. A limit of two years per term and a maximum {NUMBER
OF CONSECUTIVE} of two terms per office being a total maximum of four
years in any office (hereafter Term Limits) shall apply to members of
Executive Committees {AND MUST BE DESCRIBED IN THE GROUP CHARTER}.
{GROUP CHARTERS MUST ALSO HAVE PROCEDURES FOR REELECTING MEMBERS} A
member who has  {HAVE} served two {THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF} consecutive
terms on the Executive Committee must remain out of office for one full
term prior to serving any subsequent term as a member of the Executive
Committee {IN THE SAME POSITION). {ANY EXCEPTION TO THIS POLICY WOULD
REQUIRE APPROVAL BY THE MEMBERSHIP.} {MUST ALSO BE OUTLINED IN THE GROUP
CHARTER.}

                 

                Thank you,

                Krista

                 

                Krista Papac 
                Iron Mountain Digital 
                5530 Bandini Blvd 
                Bell, CA  90201  US 
                Home Office: +1.714.846.8780 
                Mobile: +1.714.865.7655 
                Fax: +1.323.443.3573 
                krista.papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:krista.papac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  

                 

                "Software Escrow for Dummies" - order your complimentary
copy today at www.ironmountain.com/escrowfordummies

                 

                New Gartner Report: Successful Software Escrow Requires
Planning and Negotiation

                Gartner advises: "It is also important that the licensee
continue to track the software vendor's financials and viability
annually, because any signs of financial problems would justify the cost
of verification services." Continue reading the full report at: 
http://www.gartner.com/technology/media-products/reprints/ironmountain/1
70569.html
<http://www.gartner.com/technology/media-products/reprints/ironmountain/
170569.html> 

                 

                
________________________________


                From: owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:
owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julie Hedlund
                Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 1:21 AM
                To: gnso-osc-csg

                
                Subject: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 07 March 2010
Nairobi Meeting

                 

                Dear Work Team members,

                
                
                Here are the actions/summary from yesterday's meeting.
Please let me know if you have any changes or questions.  Our next
meeting will be held next Friday, 26 March at 1300 UTC/0600 PST/0900 EST
for one hour.  The actions and summary are included on the wiki at: 
https://st.icann.org/icann-osc/index.cgi?constituency_operations_team.
Final agreed-upon changes to the Task 1, Subtask 1 document are on the
wiki at: 
https://st.icann.org/icann-osc/index.cgi?constituency_stakeholder_group_
operations_work_team_task_1_subtask_1 and the Task 1, Subtask 2 document
at: 
https://st.icann.org/icann-osc/index.cgi?constituency_and_stake_holder_g
roup_operations_work_team_task_1_subtask_2.  Changes are shown in ALL
CAPS, strikeout, and curly brackets.  Thank you very much.
                
                Best regards,
                
                Julie
                
                Action Items:
                1. Work Team members are requested to review the
"Revised Language in Task 1, Subtask 2 through the end of Part II,
Section 8 and provide any comments by the next meeting on Friday 26
March.
                2. Section 4 Elections Paragraph a: Krista Papac agreed
to suggest alternate language.
                3. Section 5 Voting:

                *       Paragraph a and b: Mary Wong and Zahid Jamil are
requested to review the revised language. 
                *       New paragraph d: Work Team members are requested
to consider and comment on the language. 

                4. Section 8 Policy:

                *       Paragraph a: Victoria McEvedy is requested to
provide clarification on the meaning of the statement. 
                *       Paragraph d: Mary Wong is requested to provide
alternate language for Work Team consideration. 

                
                Summary:

                *       Task 1, Subtask 1: Work Team members agreed to
the final version of the revised recommendations. 
                *       Task 1, Subtask 2: Work Team members reviewed
and discussed changes through Part II, Section 8 Policy. 

                
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