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Re: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of that sequence of events i rattled off on the call just now -- registrant role in TDRP

  • To: "Mike O'Connor" <mike@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • Subject: Re: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of that sequence of events i rattled off on the call just now -- registrant role in TDRP
  • From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 11:45:06 +0100
Hi Mikey,
if the registrant believes either the gaining or losing registrar have violated transfer poliy, compliance is the way to go. If the registrar is found to have been in breach of the RAA, he will be required to mend the breach, one option of which may be initiating the TDRP. 

Best,

Volker


whew…

good, but bewildering, discussion.
so Volker, what do we do about the case where the registrar and the registrant disagree about the merits? where does the registrant go to get that disagreement resolved? 

m
On Dec 4, 2013, at 8:03 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: 


Am 04.12.2013 14:38, schrieb Kevin Erdman:

Hi Volker,
Thanks for your clarification, and I understand your position and I disagree with it, for two reasons.
First reason is the initial impetus to go down this line was domain hijacking, registrar #1 gets a fraudulent authorization that ends up with a new party in control of a domain at a new registrar. In this case, both real parties and both registrars need to be involved because all have potential liability.
The current registrar is involved in the UDRP as well, and required to provide certain information, assist with the transfer and lock and unlock the domain name. Further, the fact of whether a transfer authorization in case of a hijacking is fraudulent or not does not even matter IIRC as the transfer process usually is not violated in such cases, but the TDRP exclusively deals with policy violations.
Second reason is that UDRP2 for domain ownership disputes might be a good idea in general, but that idea is beyond the scope of our Working Group's charter. We might include this idea as a potential new area to develop, but just not here.
If it is outside our scope, we can still recommend this be looked at in a future UDRP reform or new PDP if we agree that such a process would be the better way to deal with the issue.
I disagree with the notion that we should force a registrar to charge into a dispute, at its own risk, for cases it sees as having no merit. There is a reason why the current TDRP is an elective method and I see no reason to change that. 

From the TDRP:
(http://www.icann.org/en/help/dndr/tdrp)
"In cases where this is unsuccessful and where a /registrar elects to file /a dispute, the following procedures apply. " 
and
"/Transfer dispute resolution fees can be substantial/"




_________________________________
Kevin R Erdman

cell 317.289.3934

Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 4, 2013, at 8:09, "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: 


Hi Kevin,
I think you misunderstood me. By UDRP2 I do not mean the same process, but a new process modeled on the UDRP precedures. Of course the questions that would have to be answered by the panels would be different from those asked in the current UDRP. 

Basically:
1) Was the complainant the previous owner?
2) Can the previous owner show that the transfer/change of ownership occurred illegally? 
3) Can the respondent demonstrate evidence to the contrary?
It remains a dispute between two parties: The previous owner and the current owner. 
No need to drag anyone else in there as a party.

Volker

Hi Volker,
I agree that ownership issues are a key to this discussion. However, when the ownership issue only relates to a domain at a single registrar, traditional contract principles apply and make those situations a standard contractual dispute handled with regard to ICANN contracts and registrant-registrar contracts. The problem falls outside of this context when the domain is also transferred, so that multiple parties may be involved in resolving the ownership issue and that is the problem we are discussing—I believe that handling unauthorized ownership changes within a registrar is not part of our Charter. The UDRP explicitly does not deal with who should own a domain, rather one possible resolution of the UDRP procedure is the transfer of a domain name. The issues that a dispute resolution panel has to deal with is the the activities of the domain owner, the trademark rights of the complaint filer, and the question of whether the registration and/or use of the domain is in bad faith in light of the trademark rights. Ownership transfer is a possible form of relief, but not an issue that the dispute resolution panel evaluates. From the perspective of a registry, the UDRP involves some input and the output is who gets to own the domain. However, from the perspective of registrars and registrants, the UDRP is all about the nature and extent of trademark rights and the domain name in question. IMO, the only similarity between resolving ownership issues and the UDRP is the last step, that a form of relief may be a forced transfer of a domain. Otherwise, the UDRP does not deal with the ownership issues of which we are concerned. 
____________________________
Kevin R Erdman
Reichel IP LLP
212 West 10th Street, Suite D-280
Indianapolis, IN 46202
voice 317.677.0689
fax 317.454.1349
email kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
skype kevimundo
web www.reichelip.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Volker Greimann <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 04, 2013 4:32 AM
*To:* Holly Raiche <mailto:h.raiche@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ; Kevin Erdman <mailto:krerdman@xxxxxxxx> *Cc:* Dorrain, Kristine <mailto:kdorrain@xxxxxxxxxxxx> ; James M. Bladel <mailto:jbladel@xxxxxxxxxxx> ; Mike O'Connor <mailto:mike@xxxxxxxxxx> ; gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx> *Subject:* Re: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of that sequence of events i rattled off on the call just now -- registrant role in TDRP 
Hi Kevin and Holly,
one aspect we noted previously was that the issues at hand look more like ownership issues than transfer issues, as the exact same problems for the registrant may exist when no transfer has taken place. Therefore a process that focusses on unauthorized ownership changes rather than transfers may be better to deal with the the actual problem.
And the issue of who should own a domain is more commonly dealt with under the UDRP (albeit under different conditions) than the TDRP, which does not deal with such issues at all, or only as a result from process violation. 

Volker


Well said Kevin
Holly
On 04/12/2013, at 4:57 AM, Kevin Erdman wrote:
I disagree. The UDRP is designed to correct misbehavior of a valid domain name owner relating to that owner’s use of a domain name, namely that the use of a domain infringes the rights of a trademark owner. The basis of the complaint is not that the domain name owner did not validly register the domain, but rather that the use of the domain is a trademark violation. The facts and circumstances of the ownership of trademark rights and the trademark infringement are outside of the knowledge of the registrars and registries. The UDRP procedures are designed to get the facts in front of the dispute resolution panel to provide the trademark owner with a remedy to trademark infringement that may be difficult or impossible to obtain judicially. The TDRP is about correcting a bad domain transfer, and the circumstances of the transfer are mostly known to the registrars and registries, but there might be some oversight that a registrar or a registrant would want corrected. I think we should focus on where the TDRP leaves a registrant or a registrar without a remedy, and only provide more procedures for scenarios where a remedy is not currently available. 
____________________________
Kevin R Erdman
Reichel IP LLP
212 West 10th Street, Suite D-280
Indianapolis, IN 46202
voice 317.677.0689
fax 317.454.1349
emailkevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
skype kevimundo
webwww.reichelip.com <http://www.reichelip.com/>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*Dorrain, Kristine <mailto:kdorrain@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:*Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:43 PM
*To:*'Volker Greimann' <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;James M. Bladel <mailto:jbladel@xxxxxxxxxxx>;Mike O'Connor <mailto:mike@xxxxxxxxxx> 
*Cc:*gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:*RE: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of that sequence of events i rattled off on the call just now -- registrant role in TDRP 
I agree.
*From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
*Sent:*Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:41 AM
*To:*Dorrain, Kristine; James M. Bladel; Mike O'Connor
*Cc:*gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:*Re: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of that sequence of events i rattled off on the call just now -- registrant role in TDRP The issue of Trademark aside, I see many more similarities between the UDRP and the issue of legitimate ownership of a domain than between that issue and the TDRP. After all, both are disputes between parties about who should be the legitimate owner of a domain name.
So while we may not want to open the UDRP to new complaints, we may want to look at creating a UDRP2 that is designed for exactly these issues.
In both cases the registrar is asked to do certain things in preparation for the dispute and as its result, in both parts the question of the ultimate ownership of a domain name is decided by an independant panel. 

Volker

    Just for the record, I think adding a Registrants option to
    the UDRP would be just as mucked up as adding it here.  In
    my humble opinion this warrants an entirely new policy or
    none at all.  We don’t need to reinvent the Rules….UDRPs
    Rules are great. Just create the Policy itself, which is
    entirely TM focused and would be a beast to open up to
    non-TM holders. J
    Kristine
    *From:*owner-gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:owner-gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx>[mailto:owner-gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx]*On
    Behalf Of*Volker Greimann
    *Sent:*Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:09 AM
    *To:*James M. Bladel; Mike O'Connor
    *Cc:*gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx>
    *Subject:*Re: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of that
    sequence of events i rattled off on the call just now --
    registrant role in TDRP

    Hi James,

    excellent points there. I think the case with your example
    is that this is not actually a case where a registrar is a
    party to the dispute. Maybe it is a star witness required to
    provide the information only it can provide, but not a
    party. Those roles are better left to prior and current
    registrant.

    This however begs the question if ICANN should implement
    another process for registrants to solve their disputes, or
    if this may not be better relegated to a future re-design of
    the UDRP? We could for example make a recommendation that
    the UDRP be expanded to cover also domain ownership issues
    in any future revision of that policy.

    Best,

    Volker


        Good thoughts everyone.  I think perhaps we should try
        to capture the various scenarios in the “Reasons for
        Denial” area, where a registrar can legitimately deny a
        registrant’s request to initiate a TDRP.
        For example: if the Registrant believes that the
        identity of the registrant is in question, or that they
        cannot substantiate that they were ever the legitimate
        registrant (or Transfer Contact) for the name
        pre-transfer. If its a scenario in which the registrar
        has violated the IRTP, (or even the shiny new TDRP we’re
        developing), then that is a matter for Compliance and
        the registrar's accreditation could be at-risk.  But we
        should avoid any process where a registrar is compelled
        to initiate a TDRP that they believe is without merit,
        -and- be forced to pay for the proceedings.
        Thanks—
        J.
        *From:*Mike O'Connor <mike@xxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:mike@xxxxxxxxxx>>
        *Date:*Tuesday, December 3, 2013 at 10:09
        *To:*Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
        *Cc:*"gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx>" <gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:gnso-irtpd@xxxxxxxxx>>
        *Subject:*Re: [gnso-irtpd] here's the little summary of
        that sequence of events i rattled off on the call just
        now -- registrant role in TDRP
        hi Volker,
        i'm trying to remedy the situation where a registrar is
        either in violation of the IRTP themselves (refusing to
        allow the registrant to transfer out) or is
        presumptively denying the registrant due process in a
        dispute between registrars. this was recognized as an
        oversight in the policy back in the misty past when this
        series of IRTP PDPs was launched.
        i don't care how this happens. registrars are probably
        in the best position to figure out the best way to get
        this done and i'm happy to leave that discussion up to
        them.  i like James' "put pressure on Registrars to
        comply" approach since that seems like a lighter/simpler
        one but i can live with anything that fixes that
        problem.  what i'm not keen on the idea of leaving
        registrants in their current situation where these
        decisions get made "for them" by registrars with no
        recourse for trapped registrants except worldwide courts.
        On Dec 3, 2013, at 9:51 AM, Volker Greimann
        <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:



        Hi Mike,

        you are assuming that registrants should be
        beneficiaries of the TDRP. They are not. Therefore a
        registrar not initiating a TDRP is not blocking the
        registrants access as they do not have such an access in
        the first place.

        If you want to give the registrant a way to force a
        registrar to initiate a proceeding against another
        registrar, that is another story, but that way needs to
        include an obligation of the registrant to pay the costs
        and a right of a registrar to charge for this service
        (to cover the work needed to handle the process).

        Volker


            i think the key distinction i want to draw is with
            your sentence "give registrants access to" the
            TDRP.  that's not the intent.  the intent is to
            ensure that registrants are not blocked from that
            process by their registrar. the hope here is to
            provide an appeal mechanism in those cases where
            registrar and registrant disagree on whether a TDRP
            is warranted. but i'm fine setting the bar for that
            appeal pretty high.
            On Dec 2, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Volker Greimann
            <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
            <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:



            I still feel that giving registrants access to the
            TDRP process dilutes its purpose as an
            inter-registrar dispute process designed to deal
            with process violations and will turn it into a
            transfer dispute process between registrants,
            dragging registrars and registries into a civil
            conflict between two parties. This will result in
            increased costs and work for contracted parties.

            If a registrar is violating transfer processes,
            there will be sufficient incentive for affected
            registrars to call them out and if necessary invoke
            the current process.

            What we need to look at instead is if creating an
            alternate process between registrant and former
            registrant regarding the ownership of a domain name
            makes sense.

            I am also a big fan of the line "He who wants to
            hear the music should pay for the band!", i.e. if a
            registrant wants a process to be invoked, he should
            be prepared to pony up the fees, just as with the
            UDRP. Adding a "loser pays" clause makes sense to
            me, but in that case it will remain the risk of the
            complainant that the respondent cannot pay/is
            unreachable/etc...

            Volker

                Provide the ability for the registrant to
                trigger the TDRP process in cases when they
                disagree with their registrar over an IRTP issue

                ·In general, registrars initiate TDRP when they
                can't resolve matters between themselves

                In the case of disagreement between registrar
                and registrant as to whether to initiate a TDRP,
                provide a path for the registrant to take the
                issue to Compliance

                Build minimum documentation requirements for
                registrants into the policy as a filter to
                prevent frivolous filings

                If Compliance agrees with registrant, TDRP
                proceeds as normal, with fees paid by
                registrars, as normal

                If Compliance disagrees with registrant, that's
                it -- it's off to court if the registrant wants
                to proceed.

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Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu/> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann 
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH 
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  <mailto:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.rrpproxy.net/> 
www.domaindiscount24.com  <http://www.domaindiscount24.com/>  /www.BrandShelter.com  
<http://www.brandshelter.com/>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: 
www.facebook.com/KeySystems  <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
www.twitter.com/key_systems  <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin 
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu/> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. 


--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web:www.key-systems.net  /www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com  /www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu 
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen 
Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder 
Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht 
nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder 
telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web:www.key-systems.net  /www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com  /www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu 
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is 
addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this 
email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an 
addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the 
author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.






--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web:www.key-systems.net  /www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com  /www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu 
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen 
Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder 
Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht 
nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder 
telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web:www.key-systems.net  /www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com  /www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu 
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is 
addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this 
email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an 
addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the 
author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.






--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web:www.key-systems.net  /www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com  /www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu 
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen 
Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder 
Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht 
nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder 
telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email:vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web:www.key-systems.net  /www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com  /www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu 
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is 
addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this 
email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an 
addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the 
author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
PHONE: 651-647-6109, FAX: 866-280-2356, WEB: www.haven2.com <http://www.haven2.com>, HANDLE: OConnorStP (ID for Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc.) 




--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen 
Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder 
Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht 
nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder 
telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is 
addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this 
email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an 
addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the 
author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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