Re: [gnso-irtpd] Example email string

[Volker Greimann <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Kevin,

I am purely talking policy on this when I define "valid". 'Valid' in the 
sense of the policy is a transfer that has followed the policy rules. A 
transfer that was used with fraudulent means is just that: 'fraudulent'...
So a valid transfer may have been fraudulent, but that does not make it 
invalid in the eyes of the current policy.
So instead of expanding the interpretation of valid, I'd suggest we 
develop alternative language for what you mean by invalid, such as 
unauthorized or fraudulent...
Volker


Am 06.02.2014 16:04, schrieb Kevin Erdman:
> Hi Rob & Volker,
>
> I disagree with the position that a party using illegally obtained credentials to effect 
> a transfer is a valid transfer.  In the banking world, if I get Rob's banking credentials 
> and transfer $10K to my account in North Korea, I complied with the procedures for a 
> "valid transfer" but the transfer is reversible and has consequences.  In the 
> domain world, most courts have no power to get a domain transferred to North Korea, but 
> ICANN does.  Thus, I think that there should be some allowance to hijack victims under 
> ICANN policy to pursue a fraudulent transfer that was done according to procedure.  The 
> burden placed upon parties that unknowingly participated in the transfer should be 
> minimal, but shutting the door on a hijack victim because the hijackers were really good 
> and followed procedure seems unfair.
> _________________________________
> Kevin R Erdman
>
> cell 317.289.3934
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 6, 2014, at 5:45, "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Rob,
> >
> > I tend to agree here. A 'valid transfer' is a transfer where transfer policy 
> > was followed in performing the transfer. An 'invalid transfer' is a transfer 
> > where transfer policy was not followed, or not completely followed.
> >
> > A transfer against the will of the registrant may still have been a valid 
> > transfer, if process was adhered to.
> >
> > Do we need an additional term for such cases?
> >
> > Volker
> > > > See the chain of emails from someone desperate for their registrar to
> > > > file a TDRP-the registrar is refusing.
> > > Whilst I sympathise with the Registrant who has 'lost' control of the domains, 
> > > the transfers were 'valid' in that they went through the normal transfer 
> > > processes, were authorised by the contacts on the domain, and they were started 
> > > by correctly logging into the losing registrar.
> > >
> > > If the details are exactly as described in the PDF I'd suggest they
> > > * first file a report with the police
> > > * go see their legal representative
> > > * contact the registries concerned
> > > * formally write to ICANN (as nothing in there indicated they had actually 
> > > raised this with icann)
> > >
> > > Rob
> > --
> > Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
> >
> > Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
> >
> > Volker A. Greimann
> > - Rechtsabteilung -
> >
> > Key-Systems GmbH
> > Im Oberen Werk 1
> > 66386 St. Ingbert
> > Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> > Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> > Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
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> > www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
> >
> > Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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> >
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> >
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> >
> > Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen 
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> > telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> >
> > Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Volker A. Greimann
> > - legal department -
> >
> > Key-Systems GmbH
> > Im Oberen Werk 1
> > 66386 St. Ingbert
> > Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> > Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> > Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
> > www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
> >
> > Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
> > www.facebook.com/KeySystems
> > www.twitter.com/key_systems
> >
> > CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> > Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> > V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
> >
> > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> > www.keydrive.lu
> >
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--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen 
Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder 
Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht 
nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder 
telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is 
addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this 
email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an 
addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the 
author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.